Discussion:
UCL 2018/19 SF 1st Leg Barca-LFC [R]
(too old to reply)
a***@hotmail.com
2019-05-01 18:05:12 UTC
Permalink
Coutinho starts over Dembele. Other than that it's bidniz as usual for Barca.

Keita in for Firmino, big surprise because Bobby was deemed fit yesterday. Not sure if this is tactical or fitness related. Either Keita goes to cover the left wing and one of Mane or Salah plays in the middle (with the other on the right), or we are going with more of a 4-3-1-2 with Keita in the hole.

On the defensive side, Gomez in for TAA which makes a lot of sense as TAA is still very raw defensively.

All in all, possibly our most conservative setup all season. Godspeed, LFC.
anders t
2019-05-01 21:05:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Coutinho starts over Dembele. Other than that it's bidniz as usual for Barca.
Keita in for Firmino, big surprise because Bobby was deemed fit yesterday. Not sure if this is tactical or fitness related. Either Keita goes to cover the left wing and one of Mane or Salah plays in the middle (with the other on the right), or we are going with more of a 4-3-1-2 with Keita in the hole.
On the defensive side, Gomez in for TAA which makes a lot of sense as TAA is still very raw defensively.
All in all, possibly our most conservative setup all season. Godspeed, LFC.
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
--
Manchester United FC - CHAMPIONS
Latest: England '13 (20th) Europa '17, UEFA '08, World '08
a***@hotmail.com
2019-05-01 23:27:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by anders t
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Coutinho starts over Dembele. Other than that it's bidniz as usual for Barca.
Keita in for Firmino, big surprise because Bobby was deemed fit yesterday. Not sure if this is tactical or fitness related. Either Keita goes to cover the left wing and one of Mane or Salah plays in the middle (with the other on the right), or we are going with more of a 4-3-1-2 with Keita in the hole.
On the defensive side, Gomez in for TAA which makes a lot of sense as TAA is still very raw defensively.
All in all, possibly our most conservative setup all season. Godspeed, LFC.
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling Champions League semifinal.
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-02 08:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by anders t
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Coutinho starts over Dembele. Other than that it's bidniz as usual for Barca.
Keita in for Firmino, big surprise because Bobby was deemed fit yesterday. Not sure if this is tactical or fitness related. Either Keita goes to cover the left wing and one of Mane or Salah plays in the middle (with the other on the right), or we are going with more of a 4-3-1-2 with Keita in the hole.
On the defensive side, Gomez in for TAA which makes a lot of sense as TAA is still very raw defensively.
All in all, possibly our most conservative setup all season. Godspeed, LFC.
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling Champions League semifinal.
You're too negative. Liverpool gave the best away performance of any away team in the CL in Camp Nou in years, they were just unlucky not to score. The game should have really ended 2-2 or 3-3.

If they add to that performance and play Firmino 4-5 goals against Barca would be possible. It has been done before, and Liverpool has what it takes. We all know Anfield is a special place.


I am not optimistic for Barca's near future - this is sort of the last hurrah of this group of players and the younger ones (Coutinho and Dembele) struggle to deliver. Barca will need to get a lot of things right on the transfer market to regain their strength of the past decade (it is already plain to see that they are a shadow of their former selves).
Mehdi
2019-05-02 11:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
You're too negative. Liverpool gave the best away performance of any away team in the CL in Camp Nou in years, they were just unlucky not to score. The game should have really ended 2-2 or 3-3.
If they add to that performance and play Firmino 4-5 goals against Barca would be possible. It has been done before, and Liverpool has what it takes. We all know Anfield is a special place.
The problem is they didn't get an away goal.
Post by s***@gmail.com
I am not optimistic for Barca's near future - this is sort of the last hurrah of this group of players and the younger ones (Coutinho and Dembele) struggle to deliver. Barca will need to get a lot of things right on the transfer market to regain their strength of the past decade (it is already plain to see that they are a shadow of their former selves).
Yes, that is the silver lining.
Bruce Scott
2019-05-02 09:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg
or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the
most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling
Champions League semifinal.
...which most of us didn't see due to the pay-tv politics...

I saw the goals today. Boy that Messi-mania is over the top. He
made a nice free kick, and he was decisive in getting to the ball
on the 2-0. But his FK was not superior to Caligiuri's in the
Ruhr-Pott Derby (and before one says yes the CL is a bigger game, no
it was not if you are a Schalke fan :-))
--
ciao, Bruce
Mehdi
2019-05-02 12:00:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Scott
...which most of us didn't see due to the pay-tv politics...
If you can't watch any major game in any major tournament, you're not
trying hard enough.
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-02 14:25:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by Bruce Scott
...which most of us didn't see due to the pay-tv politics...
If you can't watch any major game in any major tournament, you're not
trying hard enough.
I sometimes find it earier to watch a random feed than on tv//bt/online.
Bruce Scott
2019-05-03 09:32:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by Bruce Scott
...which most of us didn't see due to the pay-tv politics...
If you can't watch any major game in any major tournament, you're not
trying hard enough.
Some of us read books and don't have internet at home, Benny.
The restaurant I used to watch these at doesn't have DAZN.
Plus, the 21h00 kickoff time is too late.
--
ciao, Bruce
Mehdi
2019-05-03 11:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Scott
Some of us read books and don't have internet at home, Benny.
The restaurant I used to watch these at doesn't have DAZN.
Plus, the 21h00 kickoff time is too late.
You don't have internet at home?!?!?
Bruce Scott
2019-05-06 12:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by Bruce Scott
Some of us read books and don't have internet at home, Benny.
The restaurant I used to watch these at doesn't have DAZN.
Plus, the 21h00 kickoff time is too late.
You don't have internet at home?!?!?
(shock horror) no :-)
--
ciao, Bruce

ps no smartphone either
MH
2019-05-07 22:37:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Scott
Post by Mehdi
Post by Bruce Scott
Some of us read books and don't have internet at home, Benny.
The restaurant I used to watch these at doesn't have DAZN.
Plus, the 21h00 kickoff time is too late.
You don't have internet at home?!?!?
(shock horror) no :-)
Good for you !

I get the same reaction from people when I tell them that not only do I
have no cell phone of any type, smart or dumb, but I haven't the
slightest intention of ever getting one. I spend far too many hours a
day in front of a computer already, and am easily accessible by email or
skype for most of my waking hours. The other times, I really don't want
to be bothered.
Bruce Scott
2019-05-08 09:36:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
I get the same reaction from people when I tell them that not only do I
have no cell phone of any type, smart or dumb, but I haven't the
slightest intention of ever getting one. I spend far too many hours a
day in front of a computer already, and am easily accessible by email or
skype for most of my waking hours. The other times, I really don't want
to be bothered.
Indeed. I only have a small cell phone for two reasons (1) meeting
at the stadium (2) noiseless alarm clock (I've since got a better one
from time in Japan). When not going to or in the stadium the cell
phone is "over there" in my bag, and I'm not accessible...

MH you and I might be academics but (1) we are older and (2) we don't
work in Asia :-)
--
ciao, Bruce
HASM
2019-05-02 13:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Scott
Post by a***@hotmail.com
or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the
most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling
Champions League semifinal.
...which most of us didn't see due to the pay-tv politics...
I do have TNT/BR on my PSVue subscription and can stream it online to my
work computer, but being in USA West Coast, with games around noon, it's
time to hit the bars/restaurants that show them for an "extended offsite
lunch". No rss from those places (and I'm mostly a lurker anyway.)

Sitting behind a group of about 10 not so happy Pool fans. They still
admired Messi's free kick.

-- HASM
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-02 14:22:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Scott
Post by a***@hotmail.com
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg
or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the
most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling
Champions League semifinal.
...which most of us didn't see due to the pay-tv politics...
I saw the goals today. Boy that Messi-mania is over the top. He
made a nice free kick, and he was decisive in getting to the ball
on the 2-0. But his FK was not superior to Caligiuri's in the
Ruhr-Pott Derby (and before one says yes the CL is a bigger game, no
it was not if you are a Schalke fan :-))
Except that he does it week in , week out.
Diabolik
2019-05-02 15:45:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg
or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the
most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling
Champions League semifinal.
...which most of us didn't see due to the pay-tv politics...
I saw the goals today. Boy that Messi-mania is over the top. He
made a nice free kick, and he was decisive in getting to the ball
on the 2-0. But his FK was not superior to Caligiuri's in the
Ruhr-Pott Derby (and before one says yes the CL is a bigger game, no
it was not if you are a Schalke fan :-))
Agreed. the commentators go way over the top with his goals. The 1st was
just a tap-in, and many other players can score free kicks like that.

He hardly scores when he plays for Argentina, so no, he's not consistent.
MH
2019-05-02 17:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Diabolik
Post by a***@hotmail.com
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg
or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the
most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling
Champions League semifinal.
...which most of us didn't see due to the pay-tv politics...
I saw the goals today.  Boy that Messi-mania is over the top.  He
made a nice free kick, and he was decisive in getting to the ball
on the 2-0.  But his FK was not superior to Caligiuri's in the
Ruhr-Pott Derby (and before one says yes the CL is a bigger game, no
it was not if you are a Schalke fan :-))
Agreed. the commentators go way over the top with his goals. The 1st was
just a tap-in, and many other players can score free kicks like that.
He hardly scores when he plays for Argentina, so no, he's not consistent.
65 goals in 129 games, that is over 0.5 goals per game (.504). And he is
not an out-and-out striker.

Cristiano is better at 85 goals in 156 games (.545 per game for
Portugal, but one could argue that Portugal gets more chances to play
weak opposition given the nature of European qualifying for WC and Euros)

Compare Thierry Henry : 51 goals, 123 games - worse than Messi
Alessandro Del Piero: 27 goals, 91 games
Roberto Baggio: 27 goals, 56 games (still slightly worse than Messi)
(Inzaghi and Vieri, out and out strikers, also have a slightly worse ratio)

Klose, Bierhoff, and Völler, at .52 to .53 each, are pretty close to
Messi. T. Müller, Rumenigge, and Klinsmann are worse.

Allan Shearer, Geoff Hurst, Wayne Rooney, and Kevin Keegan all have
worse goals per game rations for England

So, in fact, does Van Basten for the Netherlands (below .5)
Lleo
2019-05-02 18:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Diabolik
Post by a***@hotmail.com
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg
or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the
most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling
Champions League semifinal.
...which most of us didn't see due to the pay-tv politics...
I saw the goals today. Boy that Messi-mania is over the top. He
made a nice free kick, and he was decisive in getting to the ball
on the 2-0. But his FK was not superior to Caligiuri's in the
Ruhr-Pott Derby (and before one says yes the CL is a bigger game, no
it was not if you are a Schalke fan :-))
Agreed. the commentators go way over the top with his goals. The 1st was
just a tap-in, and many other players can score free kicks like that.
I haven't seen the game in question, so I won't give an opinion about Messi's
contribution to Barcelona's win. However, the claim that he is the Greatest
of All Time is not based on that one particular game, but on career-long
achievements.
Post by Diabolik
He hardly scores when he plays for Argentina, so no, he's not consistent.
He is the top goalscorer of the Argentinian national team. He dragged the
team to the 2014 World Cup final, plus three Copa Americas finals. If it
wasn't for his improbable hat-trick in Quito, Argentina wouldn't even have
been there in 2018 (and I don't think even three Maradonas would have been
able to avoid that train wreck in Russia).

People may disagree about Messi's standing as an all-time great (Personally I
think he's up there), but I don't think it's fair to hold his stint for Argentina
against him. Especially seeing as Argentina could very well have won three of
the four finals they lost with Messi, had Higuaín been just a little bit more
on target.


--
Lléo
Mehdi
2019-05-03 04:07:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lleo
I haven't seen the game in question, so I won't give an opinion about Messi's
contribution to Barcelona's win.
And herein is the problem. Not that you didn't watch the match but that
this discussion comes around when Messi has a great performances. Do we
hear, did we hear this when Ronaldo was winning 3 ECs in a row? No.
Doesn't matter that he had +20 goals on Messi in the QF stages onwards,
Messi was still better! Utterly ridiculous. A different set of criteria,
holding players to a different standard. So presumably when Barca win
the EC, Messi and Barcelona will be heralded as the GOAT, despite the
fact that Real Madrid won 3 in a row, the first team to do so in over 50
years. Ludicrous double standards.
Futbolmetrix
2019-05-03 21:04:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by Lleo
I haven't seen the game in question, so I won't give an opinion about Messi's
contribution to Barcelona's win.
And herein is the problem. Not that you didn't watch the match but that
this discussion comes around when Messi has a great performances. Do we
hear, did we hear this when Ronaldo was winning 3 ECs in a row? No.
Doesn't matter that he had +20 goals on Messi in the QF stages onwards,
Messi was still better! Utterly ridiculous. A different set of criteria,
holding players to a different standard. So presumably when Barca win
the EC, Messi and Barcelona will be heralded as the GOAT, despite the
fact that Real Madrid won 3 in a row, the first team to do so in over 50
years. Ludicrous double standards.
Here is a crazy definition of "greatest of all time": he is the best at doing a *lot* of things on the football field that help his team win, and by a very large margin over his contemporaries. And he has been the best (and by a very large margin over his contemporaries) for a very long time. There happens to be another contemporary who is about equally good as him in doing one specific thing (scoring). But on every other dimension, it's really no contest.

Team and NT accolades are nice, but they are a bonus.
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-03 23:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Mehdi
Post by Lleo
I haven't seen the game in question, so I won't give an opinion about Messi's
contribution to Barcelona's win.
And herein is the problem. Not that you didn't watch the match but that
this discussion comes around when Messi has a great performances. Do we
hear, did we hear this when Ronaldo was winning 3 ECs in a row? No.
Doesn't matter that he had +20 goals on Messi in the QF stages onwards,
Messi was still better! Utterly ridiculous. A different set of criteria,
holding players to a different standard. So presumably when Barca win
the EC, Messi and Barcelona will be heralded as the GOAT, despite the
fact that Real Madrid won 3 in a row, the first team to do so in over 50
years. Ludicrous double standards.
Here is a crazy definition of "greatest of all time": he is the best at doing a *lot* of things on the football field that help his team win, and by a very large margin over his contemporaries. And he has been the best (and by a very large margin over his contemporaries) for a very long time. There happens to be another contemporary who is about equally good as him in doing one specific thing (scoring). But on every other dimension, it's really no contest.
Team and NT accolades are nice, but they are a bonus.
Indeed. :)

You are a bit harsh on C-Ron, though. He may be a bit of a twat (and what is happening with this rape thing in the US?), but he does provide for his team mates, too. Plus his attitude must set an example in the dressing room, and Real's collapse since he left...
Mehdi
2019-05-04 04:19:33 UTC
Permalink
Here is a crazy definition of "greatest of all time": he is the best at doing a *lot* of things on the football field that help his team win, and by a very large margin over his contemporaries. And he has been the best (and by a very > large margin over his contemporaries) for a very long time. There happens to be another contemporary who is about equally good as him in doing one specific thing (scoring). But on every other dimension, it's really no contest.
You're arguing about aesthetics. This isn't figure skating. It's about
winning. It's about turning up and delivering when it matters. Ronaldo
absolutely smokes Messi in this department.
Abubakr
2019-05-04 12:07:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Mehdi
Post by Lleo
I haven't seen the game in question, so I won't give an opinion about Messi's
contribution to Barcelona's win.
And herein is the problem. Not that you didn't watch the match but that
this discussion comes around when Messi has a great performances. Do we
hear, did we hear this when Ronaldo was winning 3 ECs in a row? No.
Doesn't matter that he had +20 goals on Messi in the QF stages onwards,
Messi was still better! Utterly ridiculous. A different set of criteria,
holding players to a different standard. So presumably when Barca win
the EC, Messi and Barcelona will be heralded as the GOAT, despite the
fact that Real Madrid won 3 in a row, the first team to do so in over 50
years. Ludicrous double standards.
Here is a crazy definition of "greatest of all time": he is the best at doing a *lot* of things on the football field that help his team win, and by a very large margin over his contemporaries. And he has been the best (and by a very large margin over his contemporaries) for a very long time. There happens to be another contemporary who is about equally good as him in doing one specific thing (scoring). But on every other dimension, it's really no contest.
Good try but isn't Ronaldo's fault he couldn't carry the most boring octuple winner in the history of the game.
Binder Dundat
2019-05-02 12:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by anders t
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Coutinho starts over Dembele. Other than that it's bidniz as usual for Barca.
Keita in for Firmino, big surprise because Bobby was deemed fit yesterday. Not sure if this is tactical or fitness related. Either Keita goes to cover the left wing and one of Mane or Salah plays in the middle (with the other on the right), or we are going with more of a 4-3-1-2 with Keita in the hole.
On the defensive side, Gomez in for TAA which makes a lot of sense as TAA is still very raw defensively.
All in all, possibly our most conservative setup all season. Godspeed, LFC.
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling Champions League semifinal.
I dont know what all the fuss is about with this game and Messi scoring, yes it was a great free kick and he played a game as good as uhmmm... Messi. I found the Ajax v Spurs game more entertaining, though scrappy as the game went on. I like Ajax to win the whole thing this year.
HASM
2019-05-02 13:38:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Binder Dundat
I found the Ajax v Spurs game more entertaining, though scrappy as the
game went on.
Game was entertaining up to the Vertongen medical break, not so much
after that. Spurs missed an on form Kante and Son and Ajax youngsters
sometimes do play like youngsters.
Post by Binder Dundat
I like Ajax to win the whole thing this year.
I'd like that too, but the odds seem to be against it.

-- HASM
vedran
2019-05-06 12:49:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Binder Dundat
I like Ajax to win the whole thing this year.
Naturally, I'd support an underdog as well and Ajax winning it
would be a great for football, no doubt.

I won't write off Tottenham yet, with Son they can still turn it around,
but it appears it's gonna be Rakitic vs Tadic in the final and there
is no surprise who I'd want to see win it. Unlike for Argentina,
Messi doesn't choke in CL finals, hope he will do his magic.

There is a history of Croatian vs Serbian in the final, it's been quite
unpleasant reading comments about "Serbian domination" in 2010 when
Inter with Stankovic beat Bayern with Olic, 2 years later again, Chelsea
with Ivanovic beat Bayern and Olic missed the penalty.
A year later Mandzukic saved the final by scoring vs Borussia and Subotic.

It happens too often that Serbian athletes/players beat Croatian in
many other sports as well, it's some dark magic at works. If Ajax wins
it in the end, now you'll know a real reason why it happened!

A Croatian winning a trophy for the 7th time in row (unreal) sounds much
more
reasonable to me :)
vedran
2019-05-08 23:20:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by vedran
but it appears it's gonna be Rakitic vs Tadic in the final and there
OK, I missed a bit, but this turned out much better, another chance
for Klopp and Lovren to finally take it.

Looks like Tadic won't be winning Ballon d'Or this year, as some
people had hoped for (LOL!).

RED DEVIL
2019-05-02 20:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by anders t
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Coutinho starts over Dembele. Other than that it's bidniz as usual for Barca.
Keita in for Firmino, big surprise because Bobby was deemed fit yesterday. Not sure if this is tactical or fitness related. Either Keita goes to cover the left wing and one of Mane or Salah plays in the middle (with the other on the right), or we are going with more of a 4-3-1-2 with Keita in the hole.
On the defensive side, Gomez in for TAA which makes a lot of sense as TAA is still very raw defensively.
All in all, possibly our most conservative setup all season. Godspeed, LFC.
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling Champions League semifinal.
lol...you just called Liverpool Iconic and exciting?

Never mind you won the Fountain push.

Come on Newcastle!



The RED DEVIL
a***@hotmail.com
2019-05-03 14:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by RED DEVIL
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by anders t
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Coutinho starts over Dembele. Other than that it's bidniz as usual for Barca.
Keita in for Firmino, big surprise because Bobby was deemed fit yesterday. Not sure if this is tactical or fitness related. Either Keita goes to cover the left wing and one of Mane or Salah plays in the middle (with the other on the right), or we are going with more of a 4-3-1-2 with Keita in the hole.
On the defensive side, Gomez in for TAA which makes a lot of sense as TAA is still very raw defensively.
All in all, possibly our most conservative setup all season. Godspeed, LFC.
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling Champions League semifinal.
lol...you just called Liverpool Iconic and exciting?
I see you are back after 2 month of hiding under your bed.

Did you clear your schedule for Thursday nights? You are going to be watching footie on Thursday nights for a long time; it may be years before United returns to the CL. Actually on second thoughts, Ole is so out of his depth you might not even make the Europa League after next season.
Jesper Lauridsen
2019-05-07 21:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by RED DEVIL
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by anders t
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
I don't know what's more depressing, our chances in the return leg or the slow death this newsgroup is dying, considering two of the most exciting and iconic teams in Europe just played a thrilling Champions League semifinal.
lol...you just called Liverpool Iconic and exciting?
Seems like a fair description to me.
Mehdi
2019-05-02 02:25:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by anders t
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
Utterly, utterly disgusted. I'm not going to stay up to watch the final
this year. Seeing Barcelona winning another EC will give me an ulcer.

Damn you Florentino Perez, you stupid bastard.
Futbolmetrix
2019-05-02 04:14:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by anders t
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
Utterly, utterly disgusted. I'm not going to stay up to watch the final
this year. Seeing Barcelona winning another EC will give me an ulcer.
Your loss. The greatest player of all time is putting on a show.
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-02 07:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Mehdi
Post by anders t
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
Utterly, utterly disgusted. I'm not going to stay up to watch the final
this year. Seeing Barcelona winning another EC will give me an ulcer.
Your loss. The greatest player of all time is putting on a show.
Yep.

Liverpool isn't out yet, but they need some luck in the return leg - and to score their chances.

This could easily have been 2-2 or 3-3, but if you don't score...


Also: A Cruyffinale would be the best final ever. Shame the man can't see it anymore.
Murat Bey
2019-05-03 08:59:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Mehdi
Post by anders t
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
Utterly, utterly disgusted. I'm not going to stay up to watch the final
this year. Seeing Barcelona winning another EC will give me an ulcer.
Your loss. The greatest player of all time is putting on a show.
Yep.
Liverpool isn't out yet, but they need some luck in the return leg - and to score their chances.
Very true. AFter what happened with Roma last year, Barcelona should be far from assured of a result especially since they're going to one the of most difficult stadiums in Europe to face an opponent with a history of famous European comebacks.
Post by s***@gmail.com
Also: A Cruyffinale would be the best final ever. Shame the man can't see it anymore.
Agreed, I'd like to see Messi, the greatest player of all time, lift another CL but Ajax are also a very good team.
a***@hotmail.com
2019-05-03 14:17:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Murat Bey
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Mehdi
Post by anders t
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
Utterly, utterly disgusted. I'm not going to stay up to watch the final
this year. Seeing Barcelona winning another EC will give me an ulcer.
Your loss. The greatest player of all time is putting on a show.
Yep.
Liverpool isn't out yet, but they need some luck in the return leg - and to score their chances.
Very true. AFter what happened with Roma last year, Barcelona should be far from assured of a result especially since they're going to one the of most difficult stadiums in Europe to face an opponent with a history of famous European comebacks.
I wouldn't hold my breath. We can certainly score 3 at Anfield, but stopping Messi on the counter? Fuggedaboutit.

It's actually identically poised as the return leg of the QF last year against City. They were down 3-0 and needed an early goal to get things really going, which they got, but as they pushed for the second, Salah (who was playing like Messi last season) punished them. I can see a similar script here.
Murat Bey
2019-05-04 08:33:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Murat Bey
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Mehdi
Post by anders t
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
Utterly, utterly disgusted. I'm not going to stay up to watch the final
this year. Seeing Barcelona winning another EC will give me an ulcer.
Your loss. The greatest player of all time is putting on a show.
Yep.
Liverpool isn't out yet, but they need some luck in the return leg - and to score their chances.
Very true. AFter what happened with Roma last year, Barcelona should be far from assured of a result especially since they're going to one the of most difficult stadiums in Europe to face an opponent with a history of famous European comebacks.
I wouldn't hold my breath. We can certainly score 3 at Anfield, but stopping Messi on the counter? Fuggedaboutit.
It's actually identically poised as the return leg of the QF last year against City. They were down 3-0 and needed an early goal to get things really going, which they got, but as they pushed for the second, Salah (who was playing like Messi last season) punished them. I can see a similar script here.
You'll never know, a quick succession of goals and pressure could make things get out of hand very quickly for Barcelona. Roma did it last year. City tie isn't a good example, City are minnows of this tournament with no history to fall back onto and take inspiration from and that takes time and luck, luck because they're not only facing strong opposition in this tournament but because, see, they were knocked out by a team that they were better than and already beat. Play that tie 10 more times and City will come out on top on 8 out of 10 but they lost to an away goal in this one even though they won. I don't know if they'll do it with Guardiola, Chelsea couldn't do it with Mourinho, it took lots of years of spending and building, a lucky guy named Di Matteo and finally a very lucky game against Bayern to do it.
Abubakr
2019-05-04 09:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Murat Bey
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Murat Bey
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Mehdi
Post by anders t
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
Utterly, utterly disgusted. I'm not going to stay up to watch the final
this year. Seeing Barcelona winning another EC will give me an ulcer.
Your loss. The greatest player of all time is putting on a show.
Yep.
Liverpool isn't out yet, but they need some luck in the return leg - and to score their chances.
Very true. AFter what happened with Roma last year, Barcelona should be far from assured of a result especially since they're going to one the of most difficult stadiums in Europe to face an opponent with a history of famous European comebacks.
I wouldn't hold my breath. We can certainly score 3 at Anfield, but stopping Messi on the counter? Fuggedaboutit.
It's actually identically poised as the return leg of the QF last year against City. They were down 3-0 and needed an early goal to get things really going, which they got, but as they pushed for the second, Salah (who was playing like Messi last season) punished them. I can see a similar script here.
You'll never know, a quick succession of goals and pressure could make things get out of hand very quickly for Barcelona. Roma did it last year. City tie isn't a good example, City are minnows of this tournament with no history to fall back onto and take inspiration from and that takes time and luck, luck because they're not only facing strong opposition in this tournament but because, see, they were knocked out by a team that they were better than and already beat. Play that tie 10 more times and City will come out on top on 8 out of 10 but they lost to an away goal in this one even though they won. I don't know if they'll do it with Guardiola, Chelsea couldn't do it with Mourinho, it took lots of years of spending and building, a lucky guy named Di Matteo and finally a very lucky game against Bayern to do it.
Away goals suck!
Mehdi
2019-05-02 11:57:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Futbolmetrix
Your loss. The greatest player of all time is putting on a show.
A guy who has failed to do the one thing ALL the players considered to
be all time greats have done i.e. shine at a major international
tournament, is not the GOAT. You can't have a separate set of rules.
He's had enough opportunities, he's failed. Outside the confines of
Barcelona, he chokes.
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-02 14:23:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by Futbolmetrix
Your loss. The greatest player of all time is putting on a show.
A guy who has failed to do the one thing ALL the players considered to
be all time greats have done i.e. shine at a major international
tournament, is not the GOAT. You can't have a separate set of rules.
He's had enough opportunities, he's failed. Outside the confines of
Barcelona, he chokes.
Bwahahahaha
MH
2019-05-02 15:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by Futbolmetrix
Your loss. The greatest player of all time is putting on a show.
A guy who has failed to do the one thing ALL the players considered to
be all time greats
Seems to me Alfredo di Stefano, George Best, and others depending on age
and opinions* often get considered to be all time greats.

* I have heard those older than me talk about Duncan Edwards, Billy
Wright, Denis Law, Lev Yashin, Gunnar Nordahl, John Charles, and so on
as all-time greats. Not having seen much of them except on old grainy
film, I am in no position to gainsay their opinions.


have done i.e. shine at a major international
Post by Mehdi
tournament, is not the GOAT. You can't have a separate set of rules.
He's had enough opportunities, he's failed. Outside the confines of
Barcelona, he chokes.
Mehdi
2019-05-02 16:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Seems to me Alfredo di Stefano, George Best, and others depending on age
and opinions* often get considered to be all time greats.
I said:

A guy who has failed to do the one thing ALL the players considered to
be all time greats have done i.e. shine at a major international
tournament, is not the GOAT.

My argument is he cannot be THE GOAT. He clearly is an all time great, I
didn't mean to imply otherwise. He's dominated his league and has been
the second best performer in the UCL for about a decade.

The GOAT? He'd have to win a WC to surpass Pele and Maradona and he's
had enough chances to win honours at international level. He simply has
no excuse for continually failing to deliver and his poor record in the
latter rounds is a genuine black mark against him. I fail to see how you
can argue otherwise. It's all well and good to dominate the likes of
Alaves and Leganes and the other tripe in La Liga but his record in the
latter rounds of the UCL isn't too special either, one great campaign in
the past, what, 4-5 years, doesn't change that.
Post by MH
* I have heard those older than me talk about Duncan Edwards, Billy
Wright, Denis Law, Lev Yashin, Gunnar Nordahl, John Charles, and so on
as all-time greats. Not having seen much of them except on old grainy
film, I am in no position to gainsay their opinions.
If the consensus is they are all time greats then they are all time
greats but Messi is not the GOAT by consensus. Pele and Maradona still
appear to be 1 and 2.
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-02 17:07:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by MH
Seems to me Alfredo di Stefano, George Best, and others depending on age
and opinions* often get considered to be all time greats.
A guy who has failed to do the one thing ALL the players considered to
be all time greats have done i.e. shine at a major international
tournament, is not the GOAT.
My argument is he cannot be THE GOAT. He clearly is an all time great, I
didn't mean to imply otherwise. He's dominated his league and has been
the second best performer in the UCL for about a decade.
Winning WCs isn't a requirement.
Post by Mehdi
The GOAT? He'd have to win a WC to surpass Pele and Maradona and he's
He surpassed Maradona at about age 20. I don't get this adolation for a player so lacking in the brain department. As a player he beats him in every regard, he's quicker, he's got a better lft foot, he;s got a better right foot, he passes better, he assists more and scores MUCh, MUCH more.

To me Messi is basically Maradona grown up.

FTR: It's not Messi's fault that he had to play a German NT that was actually good. Ot that Maradona was his manager. Or that his FA is so fucked up.

He made one mistake in his career - to choose ARG over ESP. Just imagine the discussion then with 3 Euros and 2 or 3 WCs under his belt. Compare that to that idiot who only made one good decision in his career - and promptly corrected that after 2 years.
Post by Mehdi
had enough chances to win honours at international level. He simply has
no excuse for continually failing to deliver and his poor record in the
latter rounds is a genuine black mark against him. I fail to see how you
can argue otherwise. It's all well and good to dominate the likes of
Alaves and Leganes and the other tripe in La Liga but his record in the
latter rounds of the UCL isn't too special either, one great campaign in
the past, what, 4-5 years, doesn't change that.
111 goals and counting, just behind CRon (the second best of all time?), but younger. More goals in the CL than Maradona in a respected league.

More goals against English clubs that a player like Rooney, the half way great is just a ridiculous stat.

Later stages you said -- can you produce a list of goal scorers and assist givers from semis onwards?
Post by Mehdi
If the consensus is they are all time greats then they are all time
greats but Messi is not the GOAT by consensus. Pele and Maradona still
appear to be 1 and 2.
Your concensus is not mine and none that i have heard of in recent years.
Mehdi
2019-05-03 03:56:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Winning WCs isn't a requirement.
To be the GOAT? Yes, it is. Pele and Maradona are considered to be the
GOATs for that reason.
Post by s***@gmail.com
He surpassed Maradona at about age 20. I don't get this adolation for a player so lacking in the brain department. As a player he beats him in every regard, he's quicker, he's got a better lft foot, he;s got a better right foot, he passes better, he assists more and scores MUCh, MUCH more.
He shines against weaker opposition, Maradona played during an era in
which defenders could actually defend, and he chokes at international
level. This isn't about technique, given both of them are midgets and
are predominantly one footed, obviously neither of them are complete
footballers technically.
Post by s***@gmail.com
To me Messi is basically Maradona grown up.
He's Maradona without balls.
Post by s***@gmail.com
FTR: It's not Messi's fault that he had to play a German NT that was actually good. Ot that Maradona was his manager. Or that his FA is so fucked up.
Whose fault is it for his poor record in the latter rounds? Given
Argentina have reached several international finals in recent years,
he's not the one scoring the goals to get them there. Not once, ever,
has he been the standout player at a major international tournament and
he's played in many.
Post by s***@gmail.com
He made one mistake in his career - to choose ARG over ESP. Just imagine the discussion then with 3 Euros and 2 or 3 WCs under his belt. Compare that to that idiot who only made one good decision in his career - and promptly corrected that after 2 years.
If is irrelevant to the discussion.
Post by s***@gmail.com
111 goals and counting, just behind CRon (the second best of all time?), but younger. More goals in the CL than Maradona in a respected league.
It was a differed competition and a game played under different rules.
It would be silly to argue it isn't MUCH easier to score goals today as
compared to the past.
Post by s***@gmail.com
More goals against English clubs that a player like Rooney, the half way great is just a ridiculous stat.
Later stages you said -- can you produce a list of goal scorers and assist givers from semis onwards?
The stat is this:

Goals from the UCL QF+. Ronaldo 42. Messi 20.

There was a recent thread about leading goalscorers in the KO stages
over the past few years and Messi wasn't in the top 5 (or even top 10)?
Post by s***@gmail.com
Your concensus is not mine and none that i have heard of in recent years.
It's obviously not my consensus, I didn't see Pele play.
Mehdi
2019-05-03 07:00:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Goals from the UCL QF+. Ronaldo 42. Messi 20.
As of Wednesday Ronaldo 44, Messi 22.

Is the reason why Ronaldo isn't nominated for GOAT because this stat
makes it hard to argue that he doesn't have a better case?

As is the fact that he's been integral to a team that has defended the
EC (which Messi never has), has won a major international honour, scored
in the KO stages of international tournaments against good teams, has a
better record at international tournaments, shone during international
tournaments not forgetting of course that at club level he's proven that
he can adapt to different systems and different leagues, unlike Messi,
and of course is two footed and great in the air.

You cannot seriously put Messi forward as a candidate for GOAT while
ignoring Ronaldo and when you include Ronaldo, his case is much stronger
but he's not as popular, not as likeable, which is the real reason for
this nauseating, Messi wankfest.
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-03 10:21:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by Mehdi
Goals from the UCL QF+. Ronaldo 42. Messi 20.
As of Wednesday Ronaldo 44, Messi 22.
Is the reason why Ronaldo isn't nominated for GOAT because this stat
makes it hard to argue that he doesn't have a better case?
As is the fact that he's been integral to a team that has defended the
EC (which Messi never has), has won a major international honour, scored
in the KO stages of international tournaments against good teams, has a
better record at international tournaments, shone during international
tournaments not forgetting of course that at club level he's proven that
he can adapt to different systems and different leagues, unlike Messi,
and of course is two footed and great in the air.
You cannot seriously put Messi forward as a candidate for GOAT while
ignoring Ronaldo and when you include Ronaldo, his case is much stronger
but he's not as popular, not as likeable, which is the real reason for
this nauseating, Messi wankfest.
As I said in the other reply: Making the case for CRon as GOAT is fine with me, I think it is a very good case.

I do not think that it comes down to goals in CL QF stages, though - I think who one ultimately prefers between the two is a matter of taste, a matter of what one prefers in a player. You like more athleticism you go for CRon, you like more sublime skills you go for Messi.

Btw: One major regret for football of the past 10/12 years: CRon and Messi never played together. How great would it have been to see them play off each other for just one season? Unfair on the opposition of course, but come one. Just to once see the best of all time play together.
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-03 10:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by s***@gmail.com
Winning WCs isn't a requirement.
To be the GOAT? Yes, it is. Pele and Maradona are considered to be the
GOATs for that reason.
It's a cup competition with all its drawbacks. It is unfair on players like CRON or di Stafano..
Post by Mehdi
Post by s***@gmail.com
To me Messi is basically Maradona grown up.
He's Maradona without balls.
Please tell that to Real supporters. :)
Post by Mehdi
Post by s***@gmail.com
FTR: It's not Messi's fault that he had to play a German NT that was actually good. Ot that Maradona was his manager. Or that his FA is so fucked up.
Whose fault is it for his poor record in the latter rounds? Given
Argentina have reached several international finals in recent years,
he's not the one scoring the goals to get them there. Not once, ever,
has he been the standout player at a major international tournament and
he's played in many.
Defending nowadays is orders of magnitude better than back in the day. It's just that it's done with less kicking.
Post by Mehdi
Post by s***@gmail.com
He made one mistake in his career - to choose ARG over ESP. Just imagine the discussion then with 3 Euros and 2 or 3 WCs under his belt. Compare that to that idiot who only made one good decision in his career - and promptly corrected that after 2 years.
If is irrelevant to the discussion.
Just imagine it for a moment. ;)
Post by Mehdi
Post by s***@gmail.com
111 goals and counting, just behind CRon (the second best of all time?), but younger. More goals in the CL than Maradona in a respected league.
It was a differed competition and a game played under different rules.
Benny, I said Messi scored more goals in the CL than Maradona in La Liga and Serie A combined.
Post by Mehdi
Post by s***@gmail.com
Later stages you said -- can you produce a list of goal scorers and assist givers from semis onwards?
Goals from the UCL QF+. Ronaldo 42. Messi 20.
Assists? number of games?

Btw: If you argue that CRon is the GOAT, then I am fine with that. I just don't believe that Maradona belongs in the conversation.
Mehdi
2019-05-03 12:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
It's a cup competition with all its drawbacks. It is unfair on players like CRON or di Stafano..
Di Stefano won a major international tournament and couldn't compete
during his peak years so he gets a pass and Ronaldo has won a major
international tournament and been one of it's outstanding players.
Post by s***@gmail.com
Defending nowadays is orders of magnitude better than back in the day. It's just that it's done with less kicking.
Sorry but it isn't even close to being better than back in the day.
Today's standards are awful.
Post by s***@gmail.com
Benny, I said Messi scored more goals in the CL than Maradona in La Liga and Serie A combined.
Different era. I'm sure Maradona, Van Basten, Platini etc, etc would be
posting ridiculous numbers tody as well.
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Mehdi
Goals from the UCL QF+. Ronaldo 42. Messi 20.
Assists? number of games?
Ronaldo 162 games, 36 assists.
Messi 134 games, 29 assists

Ronaldo has obviously played more games because he's scored the goals to
take Real Madrid beyond the QF stages.

Goals in UCL quarter-final stages and beyond 2013 – present :

2012-2013 QF vs PSG. 3-3 on aggregate, Barcelona win on away goals. 1 goal
2012-2013 SF vs Bayern Munich. 7-0 loss on aggregate. 0 goals (1 appearance)
2013-2014 QF vs Atletico Madrid. 2-1 aggregate loss. 0 goals
2014-2015 QF vs PSG. 5-1 win on aggregate. 0 goals
2014-2015 SF vs Bayern Munich. 5-3 win on aggregate. 2 goals
2014-2015 Final vs Juventus. 3-0 win. 0 goals
2015-2016 QF vs Atletico Madrid. 3-2 loss. 0 goals
2016-2017 QF vs Juventus. 3-0 loss. 0 goals
2017-2018 QF vs Roma. 4-4 on aggregate, Roma win on away goals. 0 goals
2018-2019 QF vs Man United. 3-0 win on aggregate. 2 goals
2018-2019 SF vs Liverpool. 2 goals

7 goals in 19 games, and only 3 goals during 6 seasons between 2013-2018
seasons. That is awful.

His Argentina record is even worse:

Argentina

2014 World Cup QF vs Belgium. 1-0. 0 goals
2014 World Cup SF vs Netherlands. 0-0, Argentina win 4-2 on penalties. 0
goals
2014 World Cup Final vs Germany. 1-0 loss. 0 goals

2015 Copa America QF vs Colombia. 0-0, Argentina win 5-4 on penalties. 0
goals
2015 Copa America SF vs Paraguay. 6-1. 0 goals
2015 Copa America Final vs Chile. 0-0, 4-1 loss on penalties. 0 goals
(including miss in shoot-out)

2016 Copa America QF vs Venezuela. 4-1. 1 goal
2016 Copa America SF vs USA. 4-0. 1 goal
2016 Copa America Final vs Chile. 0-0, 4-2 loss on penalties. 0 goals
(including miss in shoot-out)

2 goals in 9 games.

Total number of goals in QF stages and beyond, 5 goals in 25 games.
Post by s***@gmail.com
Btw: If you argue that CRon is the GOAT, then I am fine with that. I just don't believe that Maradona belongs in the conversation.
Maradona is celebrated because he shone brighest in arguably the ugliest
era of the game, even though his overall trophy haul is poor, he put
Argentina on his back and delivered.

I only put forward Ronaldo because Messi is put forward. I don't think
either of them is the GOAT. Pele is the GOAT, fantastic at 2 World Cups,
fantastic at club level, a ridiculous amount of goals, Santos beating
Europe's best, he ticks all the boxes.
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-03 13:06:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by s***@gmail.com
Defending nowadays is orders of magnitude better than back in the day. It's just that it's done with less kicking.
Sorry but it isn't even close to being better than back in the day.
Today's standards are awful.
They are worlds apart. Read this if you have the time:
https://bit.ly/2PDxNOX
Post by Mehdi
Post by s***@gmail.com
Btw: If you argue that CRon is the GOAT, then I am fine with that. I just don't believe that Maradona belongs in the conversation.
Maradona is celebrated because he shone brighest in arguably the ugliest
era of the game, even though his overall trophy haul is poor, he put
Argentina on his back and delivered.
He got lucky with the ref and his teammates actually converting chances.
Post by Mehdi
I only put forward Ronaldo because Messi is put forward. I don't think
either of them is the GOAT. Pele is the GOAT, fantastic at 2 World Cups,
fantastic at club level, a ridiculous amount of goals, Santos beating
Europe's best, he ticks all the boxes.
Well, with CRon, Messi and Pele you have my top 3 all together. :)
Mehdi
2019-05-04 04:16:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
https://bit.ly/2PDxNOX
A quick search seems to suggest he didn't mention the rules. Defenders
could beat the shit out of the opposition, they could hack, pull shirts,
kick and foul from behind. Then of course you had the rules, a different
interpretation of offside which made it much more difficult for forwards
to score, while they weren't being hacked to death. You had man to man
marking, again much more effective in light of the rules which favoured
defenders and, most importantly, you had defenders who were incredibly
disciplined, who could tackle and who were technically off the charts
compared to modern defenders. That's also not taking into account the
poorer standard of pitches, homer refs and match fixing.
Post by s***@gmail.com
He got lucky with the ref and his teammates actually converting chances.
Every team that wins a big prize gets luck along the way.
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-04 12:03:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mehdi
Post by s***@gmail.com
https://bit.ly/2PDxNOX
A quick search
I would suggest you actually read the article and maybe take a look at how (and how brilliantly) Liverpool defended against Messi.

Having to make a tackle means you have made a mistake.


seems to suggest he didn't mention the rules. Defenders
Post by Mehdi
could beat the shit out of the opposition, they could hack, pull shirts,
kick and foul from behind. Then of course you had the rules, a different
interpretation of offside which made it much more difficult for forwards
to score, while they weren't being hacked to death. You had man to man
marking, again much more effective in light of the rules which favoured
defenders and, most importantly, you had defenders who were incredibly
disciplined, who could tackle and who were technically off the charts
compared to modern defenders. That's also not taking into account the
poorer standard of pitches, homer refs and match fixing.
You realize you are talking about the period where the goal scoring in the Bundesliga despite plenty of quite reknowned hard men (and our most successful period in Europe as well) was an an all time high, right?
Post by Mehdi
Post by s***@gmail.com
He got lucky with the ref and his teammates actually converting chances.
Every team that wins a big prize gets luck along the way.
Exactly. And when you lack luck and Higuain and that guy with the tiny ponytail miss sitters then you don't win.
Mehdi
2019-05-05 15:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Having to make a tackle means you have made a mistake.
That's what Maldini said. Tackling is an art.
Post by s***@gmail.com
You realize you are talking about the period where the goal scoring in the Bundesliga despite plenty of quite reknowned hard men (and our most successful period in Europe as well) was an an all time high, right?
And a period when Serie A had the greatest collection of talent ever
assembled in a league.
Post by s***@gmail.com
Exactly. And when you lack luck and Higuain and that guy with the tiny ponytail miss sitters then you don't win.
He played in 8 international tournaments. In these 8 tournaments:

2007 Copa American Final. 3-0 loss vs Brazil. 0 goals
2014 World Cup Final. 1-0 loss vs Germany. 0 goals
2015 Copa America Final. 0-0 vs Chile, lost on penalties. 0 goals
2016 Copa America Final. 0-0 vs Chile, lost on penalties, missed a
penalty in the shoot out. 0 goals

The GOAT failed to scored in 4 finals. It's all well and good dribbling
past 6 players and scoring against shite like Alaves and Celta Vigo but
where was he when his country needed him? You're blaming Higuain? Messi
also had a 1 vs 1 in the WC final, he choked. Most of the greats show up
in finals, Messi didn't. He's had 4 chances and blew it. That's on him,
not on anyone else. Higuain is the scapegoat.
Abubakr
2019-05-03 12:35:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
To me Messi is basically Maradona grown up.
That and he was lucky to be born in a super-club age.

For every Stropper, Messi's had an Iniesta and a Xavi.

We're splitting hairs comparing talents of this stature; stats don't really mean much - just a matter of preference, if anything.
Abubakr
2019-05-03 12:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Abubakr
Post by s***@gmail.com
To me Messi is basically Maradona grown up.
That and he was lucky to be born in a super-club age.
For every Stropper, Messi's had an Iniesta and a Xavi.
We're splitting hairs comparing talents of this stature; stats don't really mean much - just a matter of preference, if anything.
That's Stroppa, of course...:)
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-03 13:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Abubakr
Post by s***@gmail.com
To me Messi is basically Maradona grown up.
That and he was lucky to be born in a super-club age.
For every Stropper, Messi's had an Iniesta and a Xavi.
It was Maradona's choice not to have Bernd Schuster.
Post by Abubakr
We're splitting hairs comparing talents of this stature; stats don't really mean much - just a matter of preference, if anything.
Anything to resuscitate rss. ;)
Abubakr
2019-05-03 20:41:42 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Abubakr
Post by s***@gmail.com
To me Messi is basically Maradona grown up.
That and he was lucky to be born in a super-club age.
For every Stropper, Messi's had an Iniesta and a Xavi.
It was Maradona's choice not to have Bernd Schuster.
Napoli were more successful than Barca in the late 80's but my point stands that no club back then was or even could be half as stacked as the best clubs of today are.

And except in some weird corners of Germany Maradona was considered to be the greatest player and the preeminent talent of his generation during his playing days, as Messi is now or Pele was before him. The rest is marketing...
s***@gmail.com
2019-05-03 22:59:25 UTC
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Post by Abubakr
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Abubakr
Post by s***@gmail.com
To me Messi is basically Maradona grown up.
That and he was lucky to be born in a super-club age.
For every Stropper, Messi's had an Iniesta and a Xavi.
It was Maradona's choice not to have Bernd Schuster.
Napoli were more successful than Barca in the late 80's but my point stands that no club back then was or even could be half as stacked as the best clubs of today are.
I agree with the latter part, but Napoli more successfull than Barca?

I think we can both agree that with a grown up Maradona Barca would have been more successful than without. Without him they got:

Titles:
LL: 85, 91, 92, 93, 94
CdR: 87, 90
CL: 92
ECC: 89

Runners-up:
LL: 86, 87, 89
CdR: 86
CL: 86
ECC: 91

Napoli went 2-2 in the league and 1-1 in the Coppa plus 1-0 in Europe with the UEFA Cup win during Maradona's stay from 85-91. Barca 2-3, 2-1 and 1-2 in comparison.

If Maradona had his head straight, stayed at Barca and avoided drugs, he could easily have been in Barca's first team in the early 90s - he was only 33 at the end of the 94 season.

Of course with him maybe Cruyff would have never taken over, so I am not complaining, Maradona chickening out may have been for the best. :)
Post by Abubakr
And except in some weird corners of Germany Maradona was considered to be the greatest player and the preeminent talent of his generation during his playing days, as Messi is now or Pele was before him. The rest is marketing...
Nah, of course Maradona was the best player of his generation. But not all generations were created equal...
Abubakr
2019-05-04 00:08:59 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Abubakr
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Abubakr
Post by s***@gmail.com
To me Messi is basically Maradona grown up.
That and he was lucky to be born in a super-club age.
For every Stropper, Messi's had an Iniesta and a Xavi.
It was Maradona's choice not to have Bernd Schuster.
Napoli were more successful than Barca in the late 80's but my point stands that no club back then was or even could be half as stacked as the best clubs of today are.
I agree with the latter part, but Napoli more successfull than Barca?
In the late 80's, yes.

Things turned for Barca with the 'dream team' of the 90's but by then Maradona had left Napoli as well.
Post by s***@gmail.com
LL: 85, 91, 92, 93, 94
CdR: 87, 90
CL: 92
ECC: 89
LL: 86, 87, 89
CdR: 86
CL: 86
ECC: 91
Napoli went 2-2 in the league and 1-1 in the Coppa plus 1-0 in Europe with the UEFA Cup win during Maradona's stay from 85-91. Barca 2-3, 2-1 and 1-2 in comparison.
If Maradona had his head straight, stayed at Barca and avoided drugs, he could easily have been in Barca's first team in the early 90s - he was only 33 at the end of the 94 season.
I don't think staying at Barca was tenable in the aftermath of Athletic Bilbao thing...
Post by s***@gmail.com
Of course with him maybe Cruyff would have never taken over, so I am not complaining, Maradona chickening out may have been for the best. :)
Post by Abubakr
And except in some weird corners of Germany Maradona was considered to be the greatest player and the preeminent talent of his generation during his playing days, as Messi is now or Pele was before him. The rest is marketing...
Nah, of course Maradona was the best player of his generation. But not all generations were created equal...
True, Messi had a smart dad. ;)
MH
2019-05-02 17:21:29 UTC
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Post by Mehdi
Post by MH
Seems to me Alfredo di Stefano, George Best, and others depending on age
and opinions* often get considered to be all time greats.
A guy who has failed to do the one thing ALL the players considered to
be all time greats have done i.e. shine at a major international
tournament, is not the GOAT.
Can you re-read what you wrote above carefully please ? It quite
specifically says that ALL players considered to be all time greats (by
whom ? It is a pretty subjective thing) have shone at a major
international tournament.

I was merely providing some possible counter-examples to that statement.
Mehdi
2019-05-03 03:58:39 UTC
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Can you re-read what you wrote above carefully please ?  It quite
specifically says that ALL players considered to be all time greats (by
whom ? It is a pretty subjective thing) have shone at a major
international tournament.
Addressed in my reply:
My argument is he cannot be THE GOAT. He clearly is an all time great, I
didn't mean to imply otherwise.
Mehdi
2019-05-03 04:22:43 UTC
Permalink
On 03/05/2019 01꞉21, MH wrote:

Di Stefano scored 6 goals in 6 games as Argentina won the South American
championship. Argentina refused to enter both the 1950 and 1954 World
Cups. By the time he was playing for Spain, he was 31 and Spain didn't
qualify for a major international tournament. So yes, he has shone at a
major international tournament, the only one he actually played in and
obviously Best gets a pass because he played for a weak national team.
That he was a simpleton, a drunkard and finished at 29 is on him.

Messi on the other hand has competed in 4 World Cups (2006, 2010, 2014 &
2018) and 4 Copa Americas (2007, 2011, 2015, 2016). He failed to
dominate any of them.
The Doctor
2019-05-02 12:13:31 UTC
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Post by Mehdi
Post by anders t
So totaly deserved 3-0 win for Barca. Complete domination. ;-)
Utterly, utterly disgusted. I'm not going to stay up to watch the final
this year. Seeing Barcelona winning another EC will give me an ulcer.
Damn you Florentino Perez, you stupid bastard.
Barceheatalona since the end of the 20th Century.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Newfoundland on 16 May 2019, do not vote PC nor NDP!
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