Discussion:
Copa Libertadores Final 2018, 2nd leg (R)
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Mark
2018-11-23 09:45:25 UTC
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The biggest football match in the whole history of planet Earth, ever!
I predict a draw. (And maybe Boca to win it on penalties.)
Futbolmetrix
2018-11-24 20:02:13 UTC
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Post by Mark
The biggest football match in the whole history of planet Earth, ever!
I predict a draw. (And maybe Boca to win it on penalties.)
Boca bus attacked at the entrance to the stadium. Several players with
cuts, respiratory problems caused by tear/pepper gas. Kickoff delayed,
but I can't really see how this match will go ahead today

:-(
Futbolmetrix
2018-11-24 21:30:08 UTC
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Post by Futbolmetrix
  The biggest football match in the whole history of planet Earth, ever!
  I predict a draw. (And maybe Boca to win it on penalties.)
Boca bus attacked at the entrance to the stadium. Several players with
cuts, respiratory problems caused by tear/pepper gas. Kickoff delayed,
but I can't really see how this match will go ahead today
:-(
Apparently CONMEBOL and FIFA have ordered the match to be played,
kickoff at 7:15 local time. Medical statement that some players have
cuts, other have eye injuries, but match can go on anyway.

WTF?

Not a good day for South American football
Jesus Petry
2018-11-24 21:35:47 UTC
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Vergüenza.

Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Lleo
2018-11-24 23:04:06 UTC
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Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Futbolmetrix
  The biggest football match in the whole history of planet Earth, ever!
  I predict a draw. (And maybe Boca to win it on penalties.)
Boca bus attacked at the entrance to the stadium. Several players with
cuts, respiratory problems caused by tear/pepper gas. Kickoff delayed,
but I can't really see how this match will go ahead today
:-(
Apparently CONMEBOL and FIFA have ordered the match to be played,
kickoff at 7:15 local time. Medical statement that some players have
cuts, other have eye injuries, but match can go on anyway.
WTF?
Not a good day for South American football
Terrible day indeed, an embarassment.

Conmebol really covered itself in glory with this one, haven't they. They
pushed as hard as they could for the game to go on, probably more concerned
about the presence of Gianni Infantino rather than the health and safety of
players and public (gates were opened at 1 pm, so for some people it was a
long seven hour wait just for this).

I imagine Boca was put under immense pressure to play, and at some point it
seemed they'd eventually yield. The refereeing trio went on to warm-up on
the pitch, they did the VAR testing and all... but then the game was definitely
called off, postponed for tomorrow at 6:00 pm local time.


--
Lléo
Bruce Scott
2018-11-26 10:10:09 UTC
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Post by Futbolmetrix
Boca bus attacked at the entrance to the stadium. Several players with
cuts, respiratory problems caused by tear/pepper gas. Kickoff delayed,
but I can't really see how this match will go ahead today
My my, Argentina are to host the G20 not too much later. As a journalist
pointed out, they cannot even organise and provide security for a
football match.
Post by Futbolmetrix
:-(
Indeed.
--
ciao, Bruce
a***@hotmail.com
2018-11-27 16:52:04 UTC
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Post by Bruce Scott
Post by Futbolmetrix
Boca bus attacked at the entrance to the stadium. Several players with
cuts, respiratory problems caused by tear/pepper gas. Kickoff delayed,
but I can't really see how this match will go ahead today
My my, Argentina are to host the G20 not too much later. As a journalist
pointed out, they cannot even organise and provide security for a
football match.
So Conmebol has announced that the second leg will be moved out of Argentina and played on Dec 8 or 9, location TBD. At the same time Boca is demanding that River Plate be disqualified from the tournament.

I think no home game is punishment enough for River Plate. But what a shit-show.
d***@gmail.com
2018-11-28 00:43:07 UTC
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Post by a***@hotmail.com
So Conmebol has announced that the second leg will be moved out of Argentina and played on Dec 8 or 9, location TBD. At the same time Boca is demanding that River Plate be disqualified from the tournament.
I think no home game is punishment enough for River Plate. But what a shit-show.
No. Throw em out, start the ban at five years.

Fuck this shit, or you're going to have ultras try to win key matches without them making the pitch.

Mike
r***@gmail.com
2018-11-30 10:49:09 UTC
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the cup to celebrate the Liberation of South america from its Spanish masters, will be played in Madrid next week.

come on, Chile or Paraguay do have stadiums as well
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by a***@hotmail.com
So Conmebol has announced that the second leg will be moved out of Argentina and played on Dec 8 or 9, location TBD. At the same time Boca is demanding that River Plate be disqualified from the tournament.
I think no home game is punishment enough for River Plate. But what a shit-show.
No. Throw em out, start the ban at five years.
Fuck this shit, or you're going to have ultras try to win key matches without them making the pitch.
Mike
Lleo
2018-11-30 15:44:48 UTC
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Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Bruce Scott
Post by Futbolmetrix
Boca bus attacked at the entrance to the stadium. Several players with
cuts, respiratory problems caused by tear/pepper gas. Kickoff delayed,
but I can't really see how this match will go ahead today
My my, Argentina are to host the G20 not too much later. As a journalist
pointed out, they cannot even organise and provide security for a
football match.
So Conmebol has announced that the second leg will be moved out of Argentina and
played on Dec 8 or 9, location TBD. At the same time Boca is demanding that River
Plate be disqualified from the tournament.
I think no home game is punishment enough for River Plate. But what a shit-show.
Indeed, and this was part of their official punishment: their next two games in
continental competition will be behind closed doors, they were fined US$400.000,00
and they lost the right to host this tie's second leg.


--
Lléo
s***@gmail.com
2018-11-30 19:19:30 UTC
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Post by Lleo
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by Bruce Scott
Post by Futbolmetrix
Boca bus attacked at the entrance to the stadium. Several players with
cuts, respiratory problems caused by tear/pepper gas. Kickoff delayed,
but I can't really see how this match will go ahead today
My my, Argentina are to host the G20 not too much later. As a journalist
pointed out, they cannot even organise and provide security for a
football match.
So Conmebol has announced that the second leg will be moved out of Argentina and
played on Dec 8 or 9, location TBD. At the same time Boca is demanding that River
Plate be disqualified from the tournament.
I think no home game is punishment enough for River Plate. But what a shit-show.
Indeed, and this was part of their official punishment: their next two games in
continental competition will be behind closed doors, they were fined US$400.000,00
and they lost the right to host this tie's second leg.
Pfft. What happened is that the chicken were so scared to lose that they ensured the game got abandoned.

The proper punishment is to call the game as a win for Boca and declare them winners.

And the next thing to do it to put the Argentinian league and especially River on notice. Another such incident and ban the league for 5 years as UEFA did with England.

There is no need to wait for something bad to happen to ban morons.
Binder Dundat
2018-12-06 22:42:38 UTC
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I have to admit, I have lost a lot any interest in the "Mother of all Copa finals", things have gone from bad to worse. For me, Chile would have been an ideal place to host, if they were not going to do a closed stadium or other Argentine venue.
Regardless of the huge distance and inconvenience, it seems each team will have over 3000 fans in Madrid, I hear tickets alone are around 500-750 dollars. Just yesterday, some massive, bad due, Boca Ultra was detained at the Madrid airport. Gotta say it is pretty hardcore for these guys to pony up that kind of cash for a game half a world away.

I dont know what kind of ticket sales they are getting from the locals, I dont know, do a lot of Argie expats live in Spain? Will most people have the same attitude, that this thing is a farce and black eye to the game and they just cannot be bothered, maybe the novelty will attract fans?
Binder Dundat
2018-12-08 14:56:16 UTC
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So Argentinas Airlines are offering trips to Madrid, leaving Saturday coming back Monday
https://www.lanacion.com.ar/2199118-aerolineas-argentinas-pondra-dos-aviones-madrid-final

If you dont happen to have the 87,735 pesos handy, you can pay in 9 installments. You can fly on one of two planes for either Boca or River fans. Hope they dont throw bricks at the windows, that really can screw up the flight.
Post by Binder Dundat
I have to admit, I have lost a lot any interest in the "Mother of all Copa finals", things have gone from bad to worse. For me, Chile would have been an ideal place to host, if they were not going to do a closed stadium or other Argentine venue.
Regardless of the huge distance and inconvenience, it seems each team will have over 3000 fans in Madrid, I hear tickets alone are around 500-750 dollars. Just yesterday, some massive, bad due, Boca Ultra was detained at the Madrid airport. Gotta say it is pretty hardcore for these guys to pony up that kind of cash for a game half a world away.
I dont know what kind of ticket sales they are getting from the locals, I dont know, do a lot of Argie expats live in Spain? Will most people have the same attitude, that this thing is a farce and black eye to the game and they just cannot be bothered, maybe the novelty will attract fans?
Binder Dundat
2018-12-09 20:23:23 UTC
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A super, swift box to box counter attack goal, late in the half, gives Boca the advantage. Not sure if this can be decided by away goal rules?
0-1 HT

Tattoo Boca guy who scored is going to get crunched by the River player he gave the eyes to after scoring.

It is still funny for me to have the South American liberation cup in Spain.
Post by Binder Dundat
So Argentinas Airlines are offering trips to Madrid, leaving Saturday coming back Monday
https://www.lanacion.com.ar/2199118-aerolineas-argentinas-pondra-dos-aviones-madrid-final
If you dont happen to have the 87,735 pesos handy, you can pay in 9 installments. You can fly on one of two planes for either Boca or River fans. Hope they dont throw bricks at the windows, that really can screw up the flight.
Post by Binder Dundat
I have to admit, I have lost a lot any interest in the "Mother of all Copa finals", things have gone from bad to worse. For me, Chile would have been an ideal place to host, if they were not going to do a closed stadium or other Argentine venue.
Regardless of the huge distance and inconvenience, it seems each team will have over 3000 fans in Madrid, I hear tickets alone are around 500-750 dollars. Just yesterday, some massive, bad due, Boca Ultra was detained at the Madrid airport. Gotta say it is pretty hardcore for these guys to pony up that kind of cash for a game half a world away.
I dont know what kind of ticket sales they are getting from the locals, I dont know, do a lot of Argie expats live in Spain? Will most people have the same attitude, that this thing is a farce and black eye to the game and they just cannot be bothered, maybe the novelty will attract fans?
d***@gmail.com
2018-12-09 21:37:24 UTC
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Don't think so on Away Goals.

Mike
d***@gmail.com
2018-12-09 21:38:06 UTC
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And now certain on it.

1-1 (3-3 total) -- EXTRA TIME.
d***@gmail.com
2018-12-09 21:47:38 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
And now certain on it.
1-1 (3-3 total) -- EXTRA TIME.
Tying goal at 68' by Pratto.

Boca Juniors playing with 10 after a 2-yellow send-off for Barrios in Extra Time.

Still 1-1 -- 15 minutes of Second Extra Time to play.

Mike
d***@gmail.com
2018-12-09 21:50:28 UTC
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River Plate 2-1 (4-3 agg) Quintero at 109'.

Mike
d***@gmail.com
2018-12-10 01:23:03 UTC
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And the thug ultras win again -- 3-1 AET, 5-3 on aggregate.

There's going to be a fucking war down there.

Mike
Mark
2018-12-11 09:42:37 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
And now certain on it.
1-1 (3-3 total) -- EXTRA TIME.
My prediction that it would end in a draw was correct.

Mark
2018-12-10 11:52:21 UTC
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Post by Binder Dundat
A super, swift box to box counter attack goal, late in the half, gives Boca the advantage. Not sure if this can be decided by away goal rules?
0-1 HT
I was a bit concerned at half-time! But now....

INDEPENDIENTE ARE STILL ARGENTINA'S MOST SUCCESFUL FOOTBALL CLUB, and still hold the record for the most times anybody's won the Copa Libertadores!!

And my 14th favourite football club are CHAMPIONS OF SOUTH AMERICA!!! and beat their local rivals in the final!!!!
Real Mardin
2018-11-25 16:03:01 UTC
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Just read a report that states the stadium has been closed due to essential security allegedly not being provided: https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/copa-libertadores-final-put-in-doubt-after-authorities-close-river-plate-stadium-209694


Closed door final?


RM
Werner Pichler
2018-11-25 17:00:46 UTC
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Post by Mark
The biggest football match in the whole history of planet Earth, ever!
I predict a draw. (And maybe Boca to win it on penalties.)
If that’s Real Football (TM) I could do perfectly well without it.


Ciao,
Werner
Real Mardin
2018-11-25 17:26:56 UTC
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It's official - the match has been called off again: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/25/copa-libertadores-second-leg-final-called-off-again


So that's three postponements for a two legged final - the first leg was postponed due to floods, and the second leg now twice postponed.


RM
Lleo
2018-11-30 15:43:29 UTC
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Post by Real Mardin
It's official - the match has been called off again: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/25/copa-libertadores-second-leg-final-called-off-again
So that's three postponements for a two legged final - the first leg was
postponed due to floods, and the second leg now twice postponed.
And now they finally agreed to play. All sorts of venues were brought up, even in
Brasil (although neither CBF nor Conmebol took those candidates seriously) and
the US (Miami I think?). At some point it was almost settled in DOHA, Qatar,
who was willing to pay a small fortune to the confederation and to both teams
for the hosting rights - and thus, also rewarding them for incompetence :-)

Side note, one could almost think Qatar wants to petition Conmebol membership,
seeing as how they'll play Copa America 2019 and wanted to host the Libertadores
final.

But at the last minute it was decided that the Copa Libertadores 2018 final
will be held at... Madrid, Spain. December 9th, at Santiago Bernabeu.

There's some irony in that choice that has not been lost for a lot of people.
It has been noted that the name of the tournament, Libertadores da America,
was given in honour of the main independence leaders of South American
countries: Jose Artigas, Simon Bolivar, Jose de San Martin, Jose Bonifacio,
Bernardo O'Higgins, Antonio Jose de Sucre and Pedro I.

Now that such named tournament has the continent's supposedly biggest derby in
its final, it'll be played at the capital of the former colonial empire they
became independent from. I say, just go the full measure and hold a third leg
in Lisbon :-)

Just to be perfectly clear, it's nothing against Spain. Or Portugal, that I
brought up out of the blue :-). Or even Qatar really, however bizarre that
choice would be. We all know that we're 200 years down the line from colonialism
(in the case of the former two). It's just that it doesn't feel right to take the
final of South America's most important club competition away from South American
territory. If one cannot hold it in Argentina and don't want to do it in Brasil
or Uruguay, there are seven other options to pick from.

To finish, I leave you all with the words of Diego Armando Maradona, sounding
off on Conmebol president Alejandro Dominguez: "what the hell have I got to do
if my family wants to watch Boca vs River and I have to take them to Madrid? Who
does he think we are? Are we all Macri? Does he know how much that costs? SOB,
put on security and hold the game at Velez's ground!"


--
Lléo
Futbolmetrix
2018-11-30 16:01:02 UTC
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Post by Lleo
But at the last minute it was decided that the Copa Libertadores 2018 final
will be held at... Madrid, Spain. December 9th, at Santiago Bernabeu.
A Genova city councilor had offered to host it at the Luigi Ferraris stadium, which, to be honest, was a quite romantic and appealing idea (even though it wouldn't have made Maradona happy). The Boca links to Genova is well known, but apparently River has some connection as well. Wikipedia is silent about this. Any more info?
Lleo
2018-11-30 16:22:58 UTC
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Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Lleo
But at the last minute it was decided that the Copa Libertadores 2018 final
will be held at... Madrid, Spain. December 9th, at Santiago Bernabeu.
A Genova city councilor had offered to host it at the Luigi Ferraris stadium,
which, to be honest, was a quite romantic and appealing idea (even though it
wouldn't have made Maradona happy). The Boca links to Genova is well known,
but apparently River has some connection as well. Wikipedia is silent about
this. Any more info?
I heard about that one too. About River's connection to Genova, just like their
rivals, they too were founded in the neighborhood of La Boca and had Genovese
immigrants amongst their founders. I would guess, maybe the reason why only Boca
are known as "Xeneizes" is that they stayed around in La Boca, while River left
for Belgrano/Nuñez?

Having said that I'd prefer to see the game over here, I've got to concede that
Genova would be an interesting host indeed.


--
Lléo
Lleo
2018-12-10 18:17:43 UTC
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From Santiago Bernabeu Stadium, Madrid:

River Plate 3-1 Boca Juniors (River wins 5-3 on agg)

43' Benedetto (0-1)
68' Pratto (1-1)
92' RED CARD to Barrios (Boca)
109' Quinteros (2-1)
122' Martínez (3-1)

River wins its 4th Copa Libertadores, adding this triumph to their 1986,
1996 and 2015 ones.

So, there it is. The Copa Libertadores 2018 final has been finally played.
Two islands of great football surrounded by an impressive sea of royal
screw-ups. This was the final of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

The Good was the football itself. In fact both legs were worthy, the first
more so, but the second was good too IMHO, in front of a crowded Santiago
Bernabeu. We had a few nice golaços: Benedetto's, a fulminating counter-attack,
a dribble that had Maidana tackling the wind and a clinical finish; Pratto's,
a quick combination play involving him, Fernandez and Palacios; Quintero's, a
nice placed shot at Andrada's upper left corner.

And Martínez's, well, the goal itself was not that special, seeing as it was
a run without any defenders towards an unguarded net. But that was the side
of the pitch where Boca fans were. It must have made for a hell of a picture,
a lonely River forward charging towards goal facing a wall of Boca Juniors
fans who were just waiting for the inevitable coup-de-grace. Surely some
photographer has caught it on camera adequately.

Indeed, as Martínez charged on, I was kinda expecting to see a Boca fan invading
the pitch to try to avoid the goal. Wouldn't have been out of character given
what we've seen in this final so far :-)

Trivia: having scored in both legs against Palmeiras and then doing the same
to River, Benedetto is only the second player to have scored in all legs of
the semis and the finals of a Libertadores edition. The other one was Raul
Vicente Amarilla, for Olimpia, in 1989.

More trivia: while for River fans the win over Boca surely eclipses all others,
for them there's also the sweet note of having knocked out of the way two other
big rivals, Racing in the second round and Independiente in the quartefinals.
Had they gotten San Lorenzo in, say, the semis, they'd have completed a sort
of "All Rivals Grand Slam".

Boca fought very hard and almost pulled a draw near the end of the game, two
men down, to take the thing to penalties. It would have been heroic by them,
but it wasn't to be. River, otoh, was a very resilient side: three times they
were behind over this tie, twice they got the draw and once the comeback.

Which goes to show that, when they focus on the football, Argentinians can put
up one hell of a show.

The Bad: FIVE dates for two games, and the way Conmebol handled itself over
the tournament. Be it on player registration issues, or trying to make Boca
play at El Monumental after the attack on their bus, or the failed postponements,
or the auction they conducted for the site of the second leg of the final, the
confederation hardly covered itself in glory this time around, has it?

And The Ugly, of course, was the bus stoning in Buenos Aires. That was ugly
enough on its own. Coupled with the events in Rio de Janeiro in the 2017
Copa Sudamericana final, Conmebol has now the perfect excuses to justify its
decision of single leg finals on neutral venues - or, more precisely, on venues
chosen in advance, most of which should be neutral. Conmebol says the 2019
final will be held in Santiago (or was it Lima?), but I don't put it past them
to play the thing in Miami, Los Angeles, Doha or London soon enough. Here's
hoping I'm very wrong on this one.

Which leads us to the damning indictment against the South American football
decision makers, that they were unable to host a game of this magnitude in the
continent - and then go and do it in Madrid, of all places. Perhaps they
should be reminded why the Copa LIBERTADORES da America has the name it has.
The main point is that the game should have been held in South America. In
fact, I think they could have done it in Argentina, even if not in Buenos Aires
itself.

Well, whatever. At least we got some good football. Now River goes straight
from Spain to the UAE now for the Club World Cup. It'll be strange if they
lose: would that be a cold shower over the celebrations for the Libertadores
win when they return to Buenos Aires? Fundamentally, is the CWC bigger than
this victory's magnitude? For once I'll agree with the point many Europeans
make in this forum yearly: I don't think so, indeed I think that as long as
they don't do anything silly such as, say, losing by seven, then celebrations
should be on anyway. The CWC would be one hell of a cherry on the cake, but
in this context it would seem that the main course has already been served.
But people's mileage may vary.

And sure, they can avoid this debate by actually beating Real Madrid in the
final, but even as unstable as Real looks right now, the gulf between Europe
and South America in club football is still quite large. Well, we'll know
soon enough.


--
Lléo
d***@gmail.com
2018-12-10 18:52:54 UTC
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The final should never have been fucking played, and what the fuck was the CAS thinking when they forced the match anyway?

Fucking Ultra Thugs win again.

Mike
Jesus Petry
2018-12-10 19:15:41 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
The final should never have been fucking played, and what the fuck was the CAS thinking when they forced the match anyway?
Fucking Ultra Thugs win again.
The thugs actually almost screw up for "their" team. River would probably have won in the Monumental more easily.

Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Futbolmetrix
2018-12-10 19:36:16 UTC
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Post by Lleo
River Plate 3-1 Boca Juniors (River wins 5-3 on agg)
43' Benedetto (0-1)
68' Pratto (1-1)
92' RED CARD to Barrios (Boca)
109' Quinteros (2-1)
122' Martínez (3-1)
River wins its 4th Copa Libertadores, adding this triumph to their 1986,
1996 and 2015 ones.
Nice summary.
Post by Lleo
Coupled with the events in Rio de Janeiro in the 2017
Copa Sudamericana final, Conmebol has now the perfect excuses to justify its
decision of single leg finals on neutral venues - or, more precisely,
on venues chosen in advance, most of which should be neutral.
Conmebol says the 2019 final will be held in Santiago (or was it
Lima?), but I don't put it past them
to play the thing in Miami, Los Angeles, Doha or London soon enough. Here's
hoping I'm very wrong on this one.
I was actually quite pleasantly surprised at the atmosphere in the Bernabeu. Boca-River, in terms of TransferMarkt values, is about the equivalent of Lokomotiv Moskva-Club Brugge, or Bordeaux-Besiktas (i.e., two weak CL participants, or two upper midtable EL participants). Take the atmosphere out, and it's not obvious that your typical plastic football fan would want to tune in. But the atmosphere was great. So, if you are willing to set aside the delicate subject of having the Copa *Libertadores* played outside of South America, why not?

Then again, Spain has a large population of South American immigrants, though. It's not clear that it would replicate elsewhere in Europe.
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