Discussion:
Juventus - Milan: 2-1. Somethings in Serie A never change
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Diabolik
2019-04-08 05:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Another game against Juventus decided by the ridiculous refereeing. Milan
fans aren't asking for much, just for refs to be equally fair an use he same
standards within the same game. Most Italian fans (other than Juve fans of
course) are fed up with this weekly bullshit.

Juventus will never win a UCL cup because they're not favoured in Europe
like they are favoured in Serie A.

1) Clear handball by Alex Sandro, no penalty given to Milan.


2) Dubious penalty given to Juventus where Dybala cleary runs into Musacchio
looking for a penalty, no VAR consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/brividorossonero/videos/vb.573065096464524/1998931663736420/?type=2&theater

3) Kick from behind from Mandukic who already had a yellow card, no VAR
consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10156316604453247&id=80470803246&hc_location=ufi

When will this bullshit end? Calciopoli clearly didn't help.

Highlights:

a***@hotmail.com
2019-04-08 11:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Diabolik
Another game against Juventus decided by the ridiculous refereeing. Milan
fans aren't asking for much, just for refs to be equally fair an use he same
standards within the same game. Most Italian fans (other than Juve fans of
course) are fed up with this weekly bullshit.
Juventus will never win a UCL cup because they're not favoured in Europe
like they are favoured in Serie A.
1) Clear handball by Alex Sandro, no penalty given to Milan.
http://youtu.be/fYPYOMTj4LU
That was a clear handball. VAR should have been consulted.
Post by Diabolik
2) Dubious penalty given to Juventus where Dybala cleary runs into Musacchio
looking for a penalty, no VAR consulted.
At first glance it looked like a foul on Dybala, but on slo-mo you can see that Dybala actually kneed the the defender sideways to harvest the contact. Agreed that it wasn't a penalty.
Post by Diabolik
https://www.facebook.com/brividorossonero/videos/vb.573065096464524/1998931663736420/?type=2&theater
3) Kick from behind from Mandukic who already had a yellow card, no VAR
consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10156316604453247&id=80470803246&hc_location=ufi
Agreed again. Could even have been a straight red.
Post by Diabolik
When will this bullshit end? Calciopoli clearly didn't help.
It appears that all three call were incorrectly made in Juventus' favor, but it's hard to argue a conspiracy here when they are so far ahead that they will still easily win the title
without any help. More likely, the refs may subconsciously favor them on their own turf, as often was the accusation against Fergie's United at Old Trafford.
Mehdi
2019-04-08 11:31:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
It appears that all three call were incorrectly made in Juventus' favor, but it's hard to argue a conspiracy here when they are so far ahead that they will still easily win the title
without any help. More likely, the refs may subconsciously favor them on their own turf, as often was the accusation against Fergie's United at Old Trafford.
Yep. A stupid game to whine over. Milan aren't battling for the title,
they're battling for 4th place because Gattuso's Milan are very streaky.
I'm sure I could point to VAR decisions that have gone against Juve, it
doesn't matter. Juve are miles ahead of every team in Serie A because
they're simply better, they're better coached, they have better players,
a better stadium and are better run. Instead of pissing and moaning
about it, other teams need to aspire to hit those heights.
Ammammata
2019-04-08 15:06:44 UTC
Permalink
Il giorno Mon 08 Apr 2019 01:31:38p, *Mehdi* ha inviato su rec.sport.soccer
Post by Mehdi
Juve are miles ahead of every team in Serie A because
they're simply better, they're better coached, they have better players,
a better stadium and are better run.
and all of the above thanks to a system that allows strong teams to become
even stronger
do you realize how much is interesting a league that doesn't change the
winner since eight years? or have two teams friendly splitting titles?
not only italy, of course, all major european federations are almost the
same

just have a look to the nba: the warriors, in 2012, were almost the worst
in the league; now you can see where they are
now take serie a 2011-12: lecce is now in 2nd division, novara and cesena
are in 3rd, and I can bet my life that they will never be at the top of
serie a, neither in the next 100 years

we don't piss and moan about a single game with several errors, we blame
the whole system
--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
Post by Mehdi
http://www.bb2002.it :) <<<<<
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........
Mehdi
2019-04-09 09:44:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ammammata
and all of the above thanks to a system that allows strong teams to become
even stronger
do you realize how much is interesting a league that doesn't change the
winner since eight years? or have two teams friendly splitting titles?
not only italy, of course, all major european federations are almost the
same
And as I support Milan, I'm certainly not going to complain about it. It
is what it is. When you're on top, you stay there by looking forward.
Milan and Inter are especially guilty of failing to do that. Good
management and good scouting can overcome financial disparities. The
system isn't to blame for Napoli (the strongest, consistent challengers
to Juve) failing to win Serie A, they are. The last player they produced
from their youth team is who, Insigne? Their squad is full of foreigners
and Koulibaly aside, no major European club is interested in their best
players. Take a look at the squads of most Italian clubs and you'll see
similar issues. Juve winning 8 in a row is a damning indictment of
everyone else. In those 8 years, no other major Italian team has even
begun to build a new stadium. That's pathetic.
Diabolik
2019-04-08 14:25:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Diabolik
Another game against Juventus decided by the ridiculous refereeing. Milan
fans aren't asking for much, just for refs to be equally fair an use he same
standards within the same game. Most Italian fans (other than Juve fans of
course) are fed up with this weekly bullshit.
Juventus will never win a UCL cup because they're not favoured in Europe
like they are favoured in Serie A.
1) Clear handball by Alex Sandro, no penalty given to Milan.
http://youtu.be/fYPYOMTj4LU
That was a clear handball. VAR should have been consulted.
The great thing is...it was consulted and the ref decided not to give the
penalty, even thought the VAR ref told the ref it should be given;)
Post by Diabolik
2) Dubious penalty given to Juventus where Dybala cleary runs into Musacchio
looking for a penalty, no VAR consulted.
At first glance it looked like a foul on Dybala, but on slo-mo you can see
that Dybala actually kneed the the defender sideways
to harvest the contact. Agreed that it wasn't a penalty.
Agreed.
Post by Diabolik
https://www.facebook.com/brividorossonero/videos/vb.573065096464524/1998931663736420/?type=2&theater
3) Kick from behind from Mandukic who already had a yellow card, no VAR
consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10156316604453247&id=80470803246&hc_location=ufi
Agreed again. Could even have been a straight red.
When will this bullshit end? Calciopoli clearly didn't help.
It appears that all three call were incorrectly made in Juventus' favor,
but it's hard to argue a conspiracy here when they are so
far ahead that they will still easily win the title
without any help. More likely, the refs may subconsciously favor them on
their own turf, as often was the accusation
against Fergie's United at Old Trafford.
Agreed, that's the most likely scenario, "subconsciously favoured". It's
just ridiculous that this is still going on.
Futbolmetrix
2019-04-08 13:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Diabolik
Another game against Juventus decided by the ridiculous refereeing.
Bwahahahaha!
Post by Diabolik
1) Clear handball by Alex Sandro, no penalty given to Milan.
http://youtu.be/fYPYOMTj4LU
On field ref and VAR deliberated for about 5 minutes, and decided against the penalty. Maybe they know the rules better than you do? Besides, Milan scored immediately afterwards, so the decision was completely irrelevant.
Post by Diabolik
2) Dubious penalty given to Juventus where Dybala cleary runs into Musacchio
looking for a penalty, no VAR consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/brividorossonero/videos/vb.573065096464524/1998931663736420/?type=2&theater
LOL. That's a penalty 100% of the time, you sound pathetic for whining about it.
Post by Diabolik
3) Kick from behind from Mandukic who already had a yellow card, no VAR
consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10156316604453247&id=80470803246&hc_location=ufi
Boo-hoo-hoo. Yes, without those decisions I guess you would be challenging for the title race...
Post by Diabolik
When will this bullshit end? Calciopoli clearly didn't help.
It helped you guys to win a CL and the Immaculate Virgins to add a few fake championships to their trophy room. But the rest of Italian football is rightly paying the price for its skulduggery of 2006. And you still haven't paid enough.
Diabolik
2019-04-08 14:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Diabolik
Another game against Juventus decided by the ridiculous refereeing.
Bwahahahaha!
I know how funny it is when Juve isn't favoured by the refs in the UCL.
They lose 5 finals ;)
1) Clear handball by Alex Sandro, no penalty given to Milan.
http://youtu.be/fYPYOMTj4LU
On field ref and VAR deliberated for about 5 minutes, and decided against
the penalty.
No, the ref decided against the penalty. The VAR ref advised to the ref that
it was a penalty. One of the dumbest calls I have ever seen.
Post by Diabolik
Maybe they know the rules better than you do?
What rules are there too know? It's a clear handball, and in Serie A they
have always been given this year, regardless if unintentional or not.
Post by Diabolik
Besides, Milan scored immediately afterwards, so the decision was
completely irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant, the game would have played out differently.
Post by Diabolik
2) Dubious penalty given to Juventus where Dybala cleary runs into Musacchio
looking for a penalty, no VAR consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/brividorossonero/videos/vb.573065096464524/1998931663736420/?type=2&theater
LOL. That's a penalty 100% of the time, you sound pathetic for whining about it.
It looks like a penalty, but if you look at the replay, Dybala looks for
Musacchio's leg. So it's a dubious penalty, and the VAR wasn't even
consulted.
Post by Diabolik
3) Kick from behind from Mandukic who already had a yellow card, no VAR
consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10156316604453247&id=80470803246&hc_location=ufi
Boo-hoo-hoo. Yes, without those decisions I guess you would be challenging
for the title race...
Milan doesn't care about the title race, they care about 4th spot to get
into the UCL.
Post by Diabolik
When will this bullshit end? Calciopoli clearly didn't help.
It helped you guys to win a CL and the Immaculate Virgins to add a few
fake championships to their trophy room.
What has Calciopoli got to do with the CL? Milan won the CL on merit.
Post by Diabolik
But the rest of Italian football is rightly paying the price for its
skulduggery of 2006. And you still haven't paid enough.
I know Juve fans are still angry about this. But I think they are more angry
at losing 5 UCL finals ;)
Mehdi
2019-04-09 09:35:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Futbolmetrix
It helped you guys to win a CL and the Immaculate Virgins to add a few fake championships to their trophy room. But the rest of Italian football is rightly paying the price for its skulduggery of 2006. And you still haven't paid enough.
What price??!?!? Calciopoli has no bearing whatsoever on the biggest
issues in the Italian game i.e. shit stadia and hooliganism nor did it
have any significant impact on the leagues marketability.
MH
2019-04-09 16:22:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Diabolik
Another game against Juventus decided by the ridiculous refereeing.
Bwahahahaha!
Post by Diabolik
1) Clear handball by Alex Sandro, no penalty given to Milan.
http://youtu.be/fYPYOMTj4LU
On field ref and VAR deliberated for about 5 minutes, and decided against the penalty. Maybe they know the rules better than you do?
Well, everyone knows what I think about this kind of thing - according
to the letter of the law, a referee is perfectly within his rights not
giving a penalty for this. But I seem to be in the minority on this,
and referees are definitely moving more in the direction of awarding
pens for this type of incident much more frequently.

On the other hand, anyone who thinks that is a nailed on penalty, would
also have to agree that this was a penalty (about 2.57 on this video)



Besides, Milan scored immediately afterwards, so the decision was
completely irrelevant.
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Diabolik
2) Dubious penalty given to Juventus where Dybala cleary runs into Musacchio
looking for a penalty, no VAR consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/brividorossonero/videos/vb.573065096464524/1998931663736420/?type=2&theater
LOL. That's a penalty 100% of the time, you sound pathetic for whining about it.
Looks like a penalty in real time, looks a lot less like one in slo-mo.
Dybala definitely seems to be seeking contact.
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Diabolik
3) Kick from behind from Mandukic who already had a yellow card, no VAR
consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10156316604453247&id=80470803246&hc_location=ufi
Should have been a yellow, but multiple incidents like this get missed
every game. No reason to consult VAR unless an assistant ref actually
noticed something, which apparently did not happen /
Post by Futbolmetrix
Boo-hoo-hoo. Yes, without those decisions I guess you would be challenging for the title race...
Post by Diabolik
When will this bullshit end? Calciopoli clearly didn't help.
It helped you guys to win a CL and the Immaculate Virgins to add a few fake championships to their trophy room. But the rest of Italian football is rightly paying the price for its skulduggery of 2006. And you still haven't paid enough.
a***@hotmail.com
2019-04-09 16:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Diabolik
Another game against Juventus decided by the ridiculous refereeing.
Bwahahahaha!
Post by Diabolik
1) Clear handball by Alex Sandro, no penalty given to Milan.
http://youtu.be/fYPYOMTj4LU
On field ref and VAR deliberated for about 5 minutes, and decided against the penalty. Maybe they know the rules better than you do?
Well, everyone knows what I think about this kind of thing - according
to the letter of the law, a referee is perfectly within his rights not
giving a penalty for this. But I seem to be in the minority on this,
I don't mean to sound patronizing here, but you really need to evolve on this one. I know what the letter of the law says, but clearly referees have been instructed to implement the law a different way, and a man of your demonstrated intelligence should know that.

In any case, FIFA appears to be in the process of changing the wording of the law, so thankfully we won't have to continue this endless debate much longer.
Post by MH
and referees are definitely moving more in the direction of awarding
pens for this type of incident much more frequently.
On the other hand, anyone who thinks that is a nailed on penalty, would
also have to agree that this was a penalty (about 2.57 on this video)
http://youtu.be/hEDvtpJX4co
Of course, that was a 110% a penalty. It was also profoundly impactful on the game as Milan went on to make it 2-0 directly on the counter from that play (as opposed to highly likely 1-1). But it all got forgotten because of the greatest comeback in the history of European club competition :-)
MH
2019-04-09 17:49:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by MH
Post by Futbolmetrix
Post by Diabolik
Another game against Juventus decided by the ridiculous refereeing.
Bwahahahaha!
Post by Diabolik
1) Clear handball by Alex Sandro, no penalty given to Milan.
http://youtu.be/fYPYOMTj4LU
On field ref and VAR deliberated for about 5 minutes, and decided against the penalty. Maybe they know the rules better than you do?
Well, everyone knows what I think about this kind of thing - according
to the letter of the law, a referee is perfectly within his rights not
giving a penalty for this. But I seem to be in the minority on this,
I don't mean to sound patronizing here, but you really need to evolve on this one.
I don't think that is the issue (see my previous post where I addressed
what I think the law should say, if it is meant to be interpreted as it
most often is nowadays). As long as the law is written to include
intent/deliberate as part of the definition, without defining those,
there are going to be referees who see things differently for the exact
same case. And FIFA has not helped by including what used to be a
separate directive for referees in the same passage as the law, when
those directives are particularly unclear -- "the position of the arm
does not necessarily make it a handball" for instance.

I know what the letter of the law says, but clearly referees have been
instructed to implement the law a different way, and a man of your
demonstrated intelligence should know that.

I am willing to believe that referees have been so instructed, though as
a scientist I would like some written proof i.e. an official written
directive. But the very fact that, even after VAR review, this one
was not given is evidence that different referees are still interpreting
intent in different ways. So there is still a problem.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
In any case, FIFA appears to be in the process of changing the wording of the law,
Yeah, but I fully expect them to mess that up. Starting with "natural
position" . What is the natural position of your arm when you are
running, or sliding in to make a block ?

so thankfully we won't have to continue this endless debate much longer.
I would not count on it.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by MH
and referees are definitely moving more in the direction of awarding
pens for this type of incident much more frequently.
You don't seem to give me any credit for acknowledging that the
consensus is drifting away from what I was taught (and what still is the
law).
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by MH
On the other hand, anyone who thinks that is a nailed on penalty, would
also have to agree that this was a penalty (about 2.57 on this video)
http://youtu.be/hEDvtpJX4co
Of course, that was a 110% a penalty.
I am willing to bet Diabolik might not agree.


It was also profoundly impactful on the game as Milan went on to make it
2-0 directly on the counter from that play (as opposed to highly likely
1-1). But it all got forgotten because of the greatest comeback in the
history of European club competition :-)
Diabolik
2019-04-09 23:37:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@hotmail.com
Post by MH
On the other hand, anyone who thinks that is a nailed on penalty, would
also have to agree that this was a penalty (about 2.57 on this video)
http://youtu.be/hEDvtpJX4co
Of course, that was a 110% a penalty.
I am willing to bet Diabolik might not agree.
With todays standards, of course it's a penalty. But in 2005 it was
considered unintentional, which was the standards for those days.

Let's not forget the soft penalty given with Gerard's dive.
Post by a***@hotmail.com
It was also profoundly impactful on the game as Milan went on to make it
2-0 directly on the counter from that play (as opposed to highly likely
1-1). But it all got forgotten because of the greatest comeback in the
history of European club competition :-)
If that penalty was given, it would have changed the game. Milan wouldn't
have been as complacent and might have won.
Futbolmetrix
2019-04-10 01:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Well, everyone knows what I think about this kind of thing - according
to the letter of the law, a referee is perfectly within his rights not
giving a penalty for this. But I seem to be in the minority on this,
and referees are definitely moving more in the direction of awarding
pens for this type of incident much more frequently.
Putting aside the trolling of Diabolik, a lot of people were surprised that Fabbri didn't give a penalty there after consulting VAR. One justification could be that Alex Sandro was trying to move his arm away from the ball. But that's rather weak, and certainly inconsistent with the standard that has been adopted in Serie A this year.

Having said that, it's sad that Milan fans are whining about this: first, they scored two minutes later, so the decision was completely inconsequential; second, the whole match was full of mistakes, with blatant refereeing mistakes on both sides of the ball. You can look up lucamarelli.it if you are so inclined
(blog by former referee that dissects in excruciating detail all the weekend's refereeing decisions); third, you are a million points behind in the league table! If the referee was helping someone, it was Inter.
Post by MH
On the other hand, anyone who thinks that is a nailed on penalty, would
also have to agree that this was a penalty (about 2.57 on this video)
http://youtu.be/hEDvtpJX4co
Sure, but it makes no sense to compare today's decisions with those of 15 years ago.
Diabolik
2019-04-10 04:11:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by MH
Well, everyone knows what I think about this kind of thing - according
to the letter of the law, a referee is perfectly within his rights not
giving a penalty for this. But I seem to be in the minority on this,
and referees are definitely moving more in the direction of awarding
pens for this type of incident much more frequently.
Putting aside the trolling of Diabolik, a lot of people were surprised
that Fabbri didn't give a penalty there after consulting VAR. One >
justification could be that Alex Sandro was trying to move his arm away
from the ball. But that's rather weak, and certainly
inconsistent with the standard that has been adopted in Serie A this year.
I'm not trolling dude, you're repeating exactly what I wrote.
Post by MH
Having said that, it's sad that Milan fans are whining about this: first,
they scored two minutes later, so the decision was completely >
inconsequential; second, the whole match was full of mistakes, with
blatant refereeing mistakes on both sides of the ball. You can
look up lucamarelli.it if you are so inclined
What mistakes did the ref do to favour Milan? The evidence is there in
pictures and videos. 3 decisions in favour of Juventus.

1) Clear handball by Alex Sandro, no penalty given to Milan.
http://youtu.be/fYPYOMTj4LU

2) Dubious penalty given to Juventus where Dybala cleary runs into Musacchio
looking for a penalty, no VAR consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/brividorossonero/videos/vb.573065096464524/1998931663736420/?type=2&theater

3) Kick from behind from Mandukic who already had a yellow card, no VAR
consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10156316604453247&id=80470803246&hc_location=ufi

a) They were talking about suspending this incompetent ref

b) They were looking into suspending Mandukic with post-game evidence but it
was considered non-violent... typical, it was a malicious foul and he
deserved a suspension. If Romagnoli would have play acted and rolled over
ala Chiellini or Bonucci, Mandukic probably would have been suspended.
Futbolmetrix
2019-04-10 13:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Diabolik
I'm not trolling dude, you're repeating exactly what I wrote.
Exactly. I was trolling you.
Post by Diabolik
What mistakes did the ref do to favour Milan? The evidence is there in
pictures and videos. 3 decisions in favour of Juventus.
You didn't read the article, did you?
Post by Diabolik
1) Clear handball by Alex Sandro, no penalty given to Milan.
http://youtu.be/fYPYOMTj4LU
Yes, one bad mistake favoring Juve, completely irrelevant as Milan scored two minutes later.
Post by Diabolik
2) Dubious penalty given to Juventus where Dybala cleary runs into Musacchio
looking for a penalty, no VAR consulted.
https://www.facebook.com/brividorossonero/videos/vb.573065096464524/1998931663736420/?type=2&theater
A refereeing mistake only in the twisted mind of Juve-haters. 100% correct decision, stop whining.

Other than that, a perfectly good Moise Kean goal disallowed for no reason, and various other missing yellow and red cards (on both sides).

Stop whining.

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