Discussion:
Guardiola: I hate tiki-taka
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Diabolik
2014-10-17 14:36:32 UTC
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Finally!!!
---------------

Under Guardiola's command, Barca's possession-obsessed style helped them to
win La Liga three times as well as the Champions League on two occasions.

The Spaniard's reign became closely linked with what was branded tiki-taka,
which was initially fostered by Johan Cruyff at Camp Nou before Guardiola
used it to supreme effect.

Guardiola - now at Bayern Munich - revealed in a book written by journalist
Marti Perarnau that he disliked the idea of keeping possession without any
forward momentum.

The book details his first campaign with the Bundesliga giants, and in it,
the 43-year-old is quoted as telling his players after a below-par win over
Munich rivals Nuremberg: "I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all
that tiki-taka.

"It's so much rubbish and has no purpose. You have to pass the ball with a
clear intention, with the aim of making it into the opposition's goal. It's
not about passing for the sake of it."

In a meeting with his players the next day, he added: "You need to dig into
your own DNA. I hate tiki-taka. Tiki-taka means passing the ball for the
sake of it, with no clear intention. And it's pointless.

"Barca didn't do tiki-taka. It's completely made up. Don't believe a word of
it. In all team sports, the secret is to overload one side of the pitch so
that the opponent must tilt its own defence to cope. You overload on one
side and draw them in so that they leave the other side weak.

"And when we've done all that, we attack and score from the other side.
That's why you have to pass the ball, but only if you're doing it with a
clear intention.

"It's only to overload the opponent, to draw them in and then to hit them
with the sucker punch. That's what our game needs to be. Nothing to do with
tiki-taka."

http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2014/10/16/5190693/guardiola-i-hate-tiki-taka
Sven Mischkies
2014-10-17 14:52:32 UTC
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Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.


Ciao,
SM
--
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Diabolik
2014-10-17 15:00:33 UTC
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Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
So why did he play it if the thinks it's useless?
Sven Mischkies
2014-10-17 18:37:18 UTC
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Post by Diabolik
Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
So why did he play it if the thinks it's useless?
Did you read the article?


Ciao,
SM
--
Avoid Santander, the magic bank that makes money disappear.
Diabolik
2014-10-17 23:38:09 UTC
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Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
So why did he play it if the thinks it's useless?
Did you read the article?
Yes, it looked like tiki taka to me, even though he denies it.

Do you think Bayern played tiki taka last year?
mehdi
2014-10-19 23:25:20 UTC
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Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
So why did he play it if the thinks it's useless?
Did you read the article?
Ciao,
SM
I read it and he's a massive hypocrite. He DOES play posession for
poession sake. "It all depends on posession".

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2014/matches/round=2000480/match=2011858/postmatch/quotes/

Josep Guardiola, Bayern coach
To play well, you need to have the ball. You need possession or else you
will struggle, which is what happened during the first 15 minutes. We
gave the ball away too quickly and this can't happen against a great
team like Arsenal. After Mesut Özil missed the penalty, we managed to
have more possession and gained more control. When we were a man up, it
certainly wasn't easy for Arsenal. We showed patience and the rest of
the match was quite good.

Today we again saw that it all depends on possession. We should have
fought harder during the first ten minutes. It's a question of
personality; you need to want the ball. We are not a great
counterattacking team, as we don't have the physical requirements for
that. We always need to have the ball, that's what it boils down to.
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Mart van de Wege
2014-10-20 09:45:39 UTC
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Post by mehdi
Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
So why did he play it if the thinks it's useless?
Did you read the article?
Ciao,
SM
I read it and he's a massive hypocrite. He DOES play posession for
poession sake. "It all depends on posession".
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2014/matches/round=2000480/match=2011858/postmatch/quotes/
Josep Guardiola, Bayern coach
To play well, you need to have the ball. You need possession or else
you will struggle, which is what happened during the first 15
minutes.
Nowhere does that say that he plays possession for possession's
sake. All he is saying is that possession is a prerequisite to achieve
your goal of winning the match.

Now, you may be right that he does play possession for possesion's sake,
but the piece you're quoting does not support that.
--
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.
mehdi
2014-10-20 20:58:14 UTC
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Post by Mart van de Wege
Post by mehdi
Josep Guardiola, Bayern coach
To play well, you need to have the ball. You need possession or else
you will struggle, which is what happened during the first 15
minutes.
Nowhere does that say that he plays possession for possession's
sake. All he is saying is that possession is a prerequisite to achieve
your goal of winning the match.
Now, you may be right that he does play possession for possesion's sake,
but the piece you're quoting does not support that.
I'm not suggesting he admits to it but the way he overemphasis
possession over and over again suggest he's blinded by his obsession to
it. He made those comments after the Arsenal game, a game in which they
were rubbish and created little but of course had a lot of the ball.
--
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Mart van de Wege
2014-10-20 21:34:59 UTC
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Post by mehdi
Post by Mart van de Wege
Post by mehdi
Josep Guardiola, Bayern coach
To play well, you need to have the ball. You need possession or else
you will struggle, which is what happened during the first 15
minutes.
Nowhere does that say that he plays possession for possession's
sake. All he is saying is that possession is a prerequisite to achieve
your goal of winning the match.
Now, you may be right that he does play possession for possesion's sake,
but the piece you're quoting does not support that.
I'm not suggesting he admits to it but the way he overemphasis
possession over and over again suggest he's blinded by his obsession
to it. He made those comments after the Arsenal game, a game in which
they were rubbish and created little but of course had a lot of the
ball.
So?

You brought up the comments themselves to prove that he was about
possession for possession's sake. The comments were about no such thing,
as I pointed out.

As I also pointed out, acts and comments beyond that interview might
well support your view, but that was not what you were saying.

Don't shift the goalposts. Your reading of that interview was wrong, you
were reading your prejudiced opinion in statements that objectively
don't support that opinion. Just admit it. It's no big deal, we all do
that from time to time.

Mart
--
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.
mehdi
2014-10-23 00:39:29 UTC
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Post by Mart van de Wege
You brought up the comments themselves to prove that he was about
possession for possession's sake. The comments were about no such thing,
as I pointed out.
As I also pointed out, acts and comments beyond that interview might
well support your view, but that was not what you were saying.
Don't shift the goalposts. Your reading of that interview was wrong, you
were reading your prejudiced opinion in statements that objectively
don't support that opinion. Just admit it. It's no big deal, we all do
that from time to time.
Mart
My reading of the interview was not wrong, he's a hypocrite because his
criticism of tikki-takki is the type of football his teams have played
in recent years. Bayern last year especially in Europe and Barca in his
last year. Pass, pass, pass, boring, little penetration.

"Don't believe what people say. Barça didn't do tiki-taka! It's
completely made up! Don't believe a word of it! In all team sports, the
secret is to overload one side of the pitch so that the opponent must
tilt its own defence to cope. You overload on one side and draw them in
so that they leave the other side weak."

What a crock of shit. There is no secret, it's not about overloading.
What overloading is there in cricket? There isn't. Basketball? Again
there's no overloading as it's end to end. Rugby? Is attrition.
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Bruce D. Scott
2014-10-23 09:29:59 UTC
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mehdi <***@soccer-europe.com> wrote:

|> What a crock of shit. There is no secret, it's not about overloading.
|> What overloading is there in cricket? There isn't. Basketball? Again
|> there's no overloading as it's end to end. Rugby? Is attrition.

There is indeed the concept of side-to-side shifting to overload a side
in basketball. At least in the NBA. The other concept is the clearout,
so you get a 1v1, especially when there is a coverage mismatch.
--
ciao,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
Clément
2014-10-17 15:42:01 UTC
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Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
This.

Also, the very notion that tiki-taka is about keeping possession just for
possession's sake never held any water.

Abraço,

Luiz Mello
Diabolik
2014-10-17 23:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clément
Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
This.
Also, the very notion that tiki-taka is about keeping possession just for
possession's sake never held any water.
Why not? What does it conclude, expect for starving the opposition of
possession?
Abubakr
2014-10-17 23:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Diabolik
Post by Clément
Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
This.
Also, the very notion that tiki-taka is about keeping possession just
for possession's sake never held any water.
Why not? What does it conclude, expect for starving the opposition of
possession?
Read the article.
Diabolik
2014-10-18 03:10:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Abubakr
Post by Diabolik
Post by Clément
Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
This.
Also, the very notion that tiki-taka is about keeping possession just
for possession's sake never held any water.
Why not? What does it conclude, expect for starving the opposition of
possession?
Read the article.
Guardiola is justifying BS, if it looks like tiki taka, it is tiki taka.
Abubakr
2014-10-18 04:08:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Diabolik
Post by Abubakr
Post by Diabolik
Post by Clément
Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
This.
Also, the very notion that tiki-taka is about keeping possession just
for possession's sake never held any water.
Why not? What does it conclude, expect for starving the opposition of
possession?
Read the article.
Guardiola is justifying BS, if it looks like tiki taka, it is tiki taka.
If it's BS then why were you so happy to post this article?
Diabolik
2014-10-18 12:21:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Abubakr
Post by Diabolik
Post by Abubakr
Post by Diabolik
Post by Clément
Post by Sven Mischkies
Post by Diabolik
Finally!!!
He has said it many times before.
This.
Also, the very notion that tiki-taka is about keeping possession
just
Post by Diabolik
Post by Abubakr
Post by Diabolik
Post by Clément
for possession's sake never held any water.
Why not? What does it conclude, expect for starving the opposition of
possession?
Read the article.
Guardiola is justifying BS, if it looks like tiki taka, it is tiki
taka.
If it's BS then why were you so happy to post this article?
Did Bayern pass with "intention" (with 60% possession) when they lost 4-0 to
RM last year?

Or was it meaningless tiki-taka?
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