Discussion:
Germany w Muller = beat Spain
(too old to reply)
Vanman
2010-07-12 16:48:29 UTC
Permalink
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.

Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Insane Ranter
2010-07-12 16:51:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
This is like saying the USA wins it all with Davies playing.. You just
really can't ever know.
Huw Morris
2010-07-14 07:36:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Insane Ranter
This is like saying the USA wins it all with Davies playing.. You just
really can't ever know.
In your particular example... Yes. Yes you can. :-)

Huw

Raja, The Great
2010-07-12 17:04:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Germany has been unlucky in 2002, 2006 and 2010. They seem to perform
very well in the group stage thrashing minnows like Saudi Arabia 8-0,
Ecquador 4-0 and also Australia 4-0. This time they even trashed
Argentina and England. But when it comes to big teams like Brazil,
Italy, Spain, they seem to somewhat chicken out. They DO NOT play
their natural attacking and bullying game. Fortune favors the brave.
And Germans don't seem to be brave enough to handle Brazil, Italy and
Spain in particular.

I think the problem with Germany is they do not play enough friendlies
with the likes of Brazil, Italy, Spain anymore. You know the teams
that give them the most trouble. They used to do that quite often I
remember in the 80s and early 90s.

I hope in Euro 2012 they at least meet Italy and Spain in QF/semis/
Final. They never seem to be able to beat Italy or Brazil or Spain
(and this has been happening for a long time). I wonder what is their
recent record with France. But they did get thrashed by them in 2000
Euro (I think).

Bottomline is the more you play the world cup winning teams in
competitions/friendlies, the more you have confidence of beating them.
Germany seems to be freely play against non-WC winning nations, but
struggle or have too much respect for WC winning nations (except may
be Uruguay/England/Argentina who haven't won shit for a while).
Iceberg
2010-07-12 18:03:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raja, The Great
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Germany has been unlucky in 2002, 2006 and 2010. They seem to perform
very well in the group stage thrashing minnows like Saudi Arabia 8-0,
Ecquador 4-0 and also Australia 4-0. This time they even trashed
Argentina and England. But when it comes to big teams like Brazil,
Italy, Spain, they seem to somewhat chicken out. They DO NOT play
their natural attacking and bullying game. Fortune favors the brave.
And Germans don't seem to be brave enough to handle Brazil, Italy and
Spain in particular.
I think the problem with Germany is they do not play enough friendlies
with the likes of Brazil, Italy, Spain anymore. You know the teams
that give them the most trouble. They used to do that quite often I
remember in the 80s and early 90s.
I hope in Euro 2012 they at least meet Italy and Spain in QF/semis/
Final. They never seem to be able to beat Italy or Brazil or Spain
(and this has been happening for a long time). I wonder what is their
recent record with France. But they did get thrashed by them in 2000
Euro (I think).
Bottomline is the more you play the world cup winning teams in
competitions/friendlies, the more you have confidence of beating them.
Germany seems to be freely play against non-WC winning nations, but
struggle or have too much respect for WC winning nations (except may
be Uruguay/England/Argentina who haven't won shit for a while).
the truth is Germany aren't that good. If the ref and German
goalkeeper hadn't cheated, it's highly likely they would've lost to
England.
Raja, The Great
2010-07-12 18:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iceberg
Post by Raja, The Great
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Germany has been unlucky in 2002, 2006 and 2010. They seem to perform
very well in the group stage thrashing minnows like Saudi Arabia 8-0,
Ecquador 4-0 and also Australia 4-0. This time they even trashed
Argentina and England. But when it comes to big teams like Brazil,
Italy, Spain, they seem to somewhat chicken out. They DO NOT play
their natural attacking and bullying game. Fortune favors the brave.
And Germans don't seem to be brave enough to handle Brazil, Italy and
Spain in particular.
I think the problem with Germany is they do not play enough friendlies
with the likes of Brazil, Italy, Spain anymore. You know the teams
that give them the most trouble. They used to do that quite often I
remember in the 80s and early 90s.
I hope in Euro 2012 they at least meet Italy and Spain in QF/semis/
Final. They never seem to be able to beat Italy or Brazil or Spain
(and this has been happening for a long time). I wonder what is their
recent record with France. But they did get thrashed by them in 2000
Euro (I think).
Bottomline is the more you play the world cup winning teams in
competitions/friendlies, the more you have confidence of beating them.
Germany seems to be freely play against non-WC winning nations, but
struggle or have too much respect for WC winning nations (except may
be Uruguay/England/Argentina who haven't won shit for a while).
the truth is Germany aren't that good. If the ref and German
goalkeeper hadn't cheated, it's highly likely they would've lost to
England.- Hide quoted text -
Only a hard core English fanatic would believe that. I watched the
game with a Scot and and English guy and they were thoroughly
disgusted by the English performance.
Christy_z1
2010-07-12 18:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iceberg
Post by Raja, The Great
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Germany has been unlucky in 2002, 2006 and 2010. They seem to perform
very well in the group stage thrashing minnows like Saudi Arabia 8-0,
Ecquador 4-0 and also Australia 4-0. This time they even trashed
Argentina and England. But when it comes to big teams like Brazil,
Italy, Spain, they seem to somewhat chicken out. They DO NOT play
their natural attacking and bullying game. Fortune favors the brave.
And Germans don't seem to be brave enough to handle Brazil, Italy and
Spain in particular.
I think the problem with Germany is they do not play enough friendlies
with the likes of Brazil, Italy, Spain anymore. You know the teams
that give them the most trouble. They used to do that quite often I
remember in the 80s and early 90s.
I hope in Euro 2012 they at least meet Italy and Spain in QF/semis/
Final. They never seem to be able to beat Italy or Brazil or Spain
(and this has been happening for a long time). I wonder what is their
recent record with France. But they did get thrashed by them in 2000
Euro (I think).
Bottomline is the more you play the world cup winning teams in
competitions/friendlies, the more you have confidence of beating them.
Germany seems to be freely play against non-WC winning nations, but
struggle or have too much respect for WC winning nations (except may
be Uruguay/England/Argentina who haven't won shit for a while).
the truth is Germany aren't that good. If the ref and German
goalkeeper hadn't cheated, it's highly likely they would've lost to
England.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So we can make the same argument against Spain, many of the crucial
calls went their way, just to name one below:



To me Germany was the best team in the tournament, their football was
the most enjoyable, yes I like goals, sue me. Tiki-taka football,
yuck, as bad as Catenaccio. At least with tiki-taka if they could
score, I would be happy, but they can't score except that 1 goal in
each game. Even Italy with Catenaccio scores more goals.
Raja, The Great
2010-07-12 18:26:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christy_z1
Post by Iceberg
Post by Raja, The Great
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Germany has been unlucky in 2002, 2006 and 2010. They seem to perform
very well in the group stage thrashing minnows like Saudi Arabia 8-0,
Ecquador 4-0 and also Australia 4-0. This time they even trashed
Argentina and England. But when it comes to big teams like Brazil,
Italy, Spain, they seem to somewhat chicken out. They DO NOT play
their natural attacking and bullying game. Fortune favors the brave.
And Germans don't seem to be brave enough to handle Brazil, Italy and
Spain in particular.
I think the problem with Germany is they do not play enough friendlies
with the likes of Brazil, Italy, Spain anymore. You know the teams
that give them the most trouble. They used to do that quite often I
remember in the 80s and early 90s.
I hope in Euro 2012 they at least meet Italy and Spain in QF/semis/
Final. They never seem to be able to beat Italy or Brazil or Spain
(and this has been happening for a long time). I wonder what is their
recent record with France. But they did get thrashed by them in 2000
Euro (I think).
Bottomline is the more you play the world cup winning teams in
competitions/friendlies, the more you have confidence of beating them.
Germany seems to be freely play against non-WC winning nations, but
struggle or have too much respect for WC winning nations (except may
be Uruguay/England/Argentina who haven't won shit for a while).
the truth is Germany aren't that good. If the ref and German
goalkeeper hadn't cheated, it's highly likely they would've lost to
England.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So we can make the same argument against Spain, many of the crucial
http://youtu.be/f0JN5YQbmkk
To me Germany was the best team in the tournament, their football was
the most enjoyable, yes I like goals, sue me. Tiki-taka football,
yuck, as bad as Catenaccio. At least with tiki-taka if they could
score, I would be happy, but they can't score except that 1 goal in
each game. Even Italy with Catenaccio scores more goals.- Hide quoted text -
Italy scoring a goal is a miracle.
Christy_z1
2010-07-12 19:06:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christy_z1
Post by Iceberg
Post by Raja, The Great
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Germany has been unlucky in 2002, 2006 and 2010. They seem to perform
very well in the group stage thrashing minnows like Saudi Arabia 8-0,
Ecquador 4-0 and also Australia 4-0. This time they even trashed
Argentina and England. But when it comes to big teams like Brazil,
Italy, Spain, they seem to somewhat chicken out. They DO NOT play
their natural attacking and bullying game. Fortune favors the brave.
And Germans don't seem to be brave enough to handle Brazil, Italy and
Spain in particular.
I think the problem with Germany is they do not play enough friendlies
with the likes of Brazil, Italy, Spain anymore. You know the teams
that give them the most trouble. They used to do that quite often I
remember in the 80s and early 90s.
I hope in Euro 2012 they at least meet Italy and Spain in QF/semis/
Final. They never seem to be able to beat Italy or Brazil or Spain
(and this has been happening for a long time). I wonder what is their
recent record with France. But they did get thrashed by them in 2000
Euro (I think).
Bottomline is the more you play the world cup winning teams in
competitions/friendlies, the more you have confidence of beating them.
Germany seems to be freely play against non-WC winning nations, but
struggle or have too much respect for WC winning nations (except may
be Uruguay/England/Argentina who haven't won shit for a while).
the truth is Germany aren't that good. If the ref and German
goalkeeper hadn't cheated, it's highly likely they would've lost to
England.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So we can make the same argument against Spain, many of the crucial
http://youtu.be/f0JN5YQbmkk
To me Germany was the best team in the tournament, their football was
the most enjoyable, yes I like goals, sue me. Tiki-taka football,
yuck, as bad as Catenaccio. At least with tiki-taka if they could
score, I would be happy, but they can't score except that 1 goal in
each game. Even Italy with Catenaccio scores more goals.- Hide quoted text -
Italy scoring a goal is a miracle.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Nowadays yes, I meant when they do end up winning the World Cup.
Christy_z1
2010-07-12 17:28:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Muller was the best player at the world cup(golden boot). 5 goals and
3 assists. Certainly he would have made some kind of a difference.
JGN
2010-07-12 17:38:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christy_z1
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Muller was the best player at the world cup(golden boot).
Actually, that was Forlán (golden ball ;). Golden boot is the top
scorer.
Christy_z1
2010-07-12 17:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by JGN
Post by Christy_z1
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Muller was the best player at the world cup(golden boot).
Actually, that was Forlán (golden ball ;). Golden boot is the top
scorer.
"Actually, that was Forlán (golden ball ;). Golden boot is the top
scorer.
"
Yes I know, I should have said "IMHO Muller was the best player at the
world cup."
JGN
2010-07-12 17:51:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christy_z1
Post by JGN
Post by Christy_z1
Post by Vanman
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
Muller was the best player at the world cup(golden boot).
Actually, that was Forlán (golden ball ;). Golden boot is the top
scorer.
"Actually, that was Forlán (golden ball ;). Golden boot is the top
scorer.
"
Yes I know, I should have said "IMHO Muller was the best player at the
world cup."
No problem, he had a huge impact on this WC and the golden boot + best
young player is as close as they can get to having them both share the
award for best player. I was actually glad they got the awards and not
Sneijder or Villa.
JCQ
2010-07-12 21:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christy_z1
Muller was the best player at the world cup(golden boot). 5 goals and
3 assists. Certainly he would have made some kind of a difference.
Are you forgetting this sport is not basketball? Until the games are
actually played you never know what a players contribution can be It's
more than likely that he couldn't have chance the result. He is a good
player but he is no Messi. Messi is by far the best player in the
world and he was not able to score in the world cup. Past performance
means nothing. I
Christy_z1
2010-07-12 22:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by JCQ
Post by Christy_z1
Muller was the best player at the world cup(golden boot). 5 goals and
3 assists. Certainly he would have made some kind of a difference.
Are you forgetting this sport is not basketball? Until the games are
actually played you never know what a players contribution can be It's
more than likely that he couldn't have chance the result. He is a good
player but he is no Messi. Messi is by far the best player in the
world and he was not able to score in the world cup. Past performance
means nothing. I
Sorry but Messi was having a bad World Cup and Muller was one of the
best if not the best in this World Cup, how is that a comparison?
Messi maybe the best player in the world, but the best two players in
the World Cup were Forlan and Muller.

Muller playing so good would have made a difference in the Spanish
game, but we will never know because of a bad referee mistake.
Google Beta User
2010-07-12 20:04:28 UTC
Permalink
Maybe, maybe not.

You don't know.

In terms of matchups, Spain were not in the same situation as England
(slow defenders) or Argentina (untested, a little clumsy in defense,
and small in size comparatively).

Spain have fast defenders and of course the tiki-taka which as some
have argued with some merit *could* actually be considered a defensive
weapon.
Christy_z1
2010-07-12 20:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Google Beta User
Maybe, maybe not.
You don't know.
In terms of  matchups, Spain were not in the same situation as England
(slow defenders) or Argentina (untested, a little clumsy in defense,
and small in size comparatively).
Spain have fast defenders and of course the tiki-taka which as some
have argued with some merit *could* actually be considered a defensive
weapon.
"Spain have fast defenders "

Puyol got beat many times yesterday, and only could stop Robben with a
foul in that critical instance. Germany with Muller might have still
lost, but with the golden boot not in the lineup they had a big
disadvantage.
Quincy
2010-07-12 20:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christy_z1
Post by Google Beta User
Maybe, maybe not.
You don't know.
In terms of  matchups, Spain were not in the same situation as England
(slow defenders) or Argentina (untested, a little clumsy in defense,
and small in size comparatively).
Spain have fast defenders and of course the tiki-taka which as some
have argued with some merit *could* actually be considered a defensive
weapon.
"Spain have fast defenders "
Puyol got beat many times yesterday, and only could stop Robben with a
foul in that critical instance. Germany with Muller might have still
lost, but with the golden boot not in the lineup they had a big
disadvantage.
Precise analysis.
Muller was missing everywhere and the confidence of the German team
was obviously shattered by his suspension.

Same happened with Frings at WC2006, but at least Frings did something
wrong (slap some Goucho in the face) but Muller did not do ANYTHING,
NOTHING, NULL and was punished just for being good.
Mehdi
2010-07-12 20:49:44 UTC
Permalink
Subject : Germany w Muller = beat Spain
I think Germany would have been marginally better in this situation but
unlike Quincy I think the result would have been the same.
No one cares what Quincy thinks around here.
Similar to saying if Ballack was in the lineup Germany would have defeated
Brazil in the final in 2002 (that would have made an even larger difference
at that time) which I also disagree with.
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